Compressed Magazine or Bandolier ?

  • Skipjack
    Skipjack
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    Moving to Strategy & Discussion and pinning.  Awesome Post!!
    Bacon Resistance is Futile
  • ayadrambo
    ayadrambo
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    Joined Sep 2013 Posts: 191
    I've done some math and still confuse: Should I use Lead The Charge or Press The Attack on Kara?
    My Kara team contains 1 Infiltrator, 2 Preserver and 1 Heavy Operator. So if I use Lead the charge, my Kara will gain -20% damage from all; but use Press the attack, all team member will gain +15% damage to all.
  • panzer66
    panzer66
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    Joined Nov 2012 Posts: 334
    anyone have a chart or graph for the M4X grenade launcher ?

  • Moayd
    Moayd
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    Joined Oct 2013 Posts: 1,171
    panzer66 said:
    anyone have a chart or graph for the M4X grenade launcher ?

    m4gx is just add 6300 damage every 3s. it doesn't really need a chart. it is the same with any sf.
  • jstein0914
    jstein0914
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    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 136
    Two request ---- Can we get a stat chart on best setup for least damage taken. Whats the point of having high DPS if unit dies in one shot. I like to be able to use the sliding scale of DPS output to DMG taken. Also, can we take in account the new Shrapnel Ordnance? 

    Thanks.....
  • Ray Wisniewski
    Ray Wisniewski
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    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 7
    some units like infiltrators and hellhounds only have 3 slots . your chart shows 4 ops.  so what 3 are best for those units?
  • Kylldar
    Kylldar
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    Joined Oct 2013 Posts: 16

    Awesome post

  • Steel.Rain
    Steel.Rain
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    Joined Nov 2013 Posts: 71
    Marksmen and leads, Turning into commandos .... Does that change the set ups in my components...been working on this for a few months, Any one know in any changes in there set ups.
    ask ask
  • Hugs4u
    Hugs4u
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 634
    edited 10 Jan 2016, 10:40AM
    Never mind I see you took dpr into account.
    Stay calm and keep on farming
  • Ace Hammer
    Ace Hammer
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    Brilliant... This is makes so much sense.
    image
  • Mr. Phantom
    Mr. Phantom
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    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 720
    Excellent work MX36. I have to ask, what software are you using to build these graphs? 
    01001101 01110010 00101110 00100000 01010000 01101000 01100001 01101110 01110100 01101111 01101101
  • Mohammad.Kashif
    Mohammad.Kashif
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jul 2014 Posts: 67
    MX36 said:
    Damage Per Second [DPS] an average rate of damage inflicted over time.
    it's a more accurate and practical measure of damage output than plain damage numbers as it takes into consideration all the relevant factors 
    Here i am focusing only on this number (or the change in this number) when equipping different Tech Components. especially the ones affecting Reload Time & Rate of Fire trying to find which unit benefits the most & by how much from each component or a mix of them.

    Using the info "Wrong Thinker" added in his thread about hidden stats. i put it all together in one table & added some of the missing data
    like the Time of each shot for Marksmen, Sarkis and Warhorses. and clip cycles.



    And...

    Using the DPS formula: 


    Activation time here is the time each shot takes:



    The Damage Per Round [DPR] must be multiplied by the number of shots in each clip. and 
    the time each shot takes must be multiplied by the number of shots in the clip.


    And finally we add the change ( increase\decrease) from each tech component:


    Started with [Compressed Magazine] & [Bandolier]  components which affect different parts of the equation.  
    While the majority of you have a thorough understanding of these two, we see some players confused by their function & effect on the build.

     
    A very good component with a drawback we can tolerate. heavily shortening the reload time to a 65% of its original value.
    at the first glance on the chart below, you'll see it's positively affecting all the special units but the 3 most affected units are the Marksmen - Sarkis - Warwhorse. with a DPS increment over a 30% 

    Compressed Magazine


    Also don't forget about Kara! this component coupled with her's "Bloodlust" special ability makes her a real huntress & one of the most dangerous threats on the battlefield! 
      



     
    Grants an increase in Fire Rate on account of extra weight slowing the carrier down by a 15% but since most of the Special Units has a high ROF it seems unnecessary to equip it to them. but lets look at the chart below: 


     
    it's more than obvious that the most affected units by this component are the Nightmares and Infiltrators.
    Note that this component adds absolutely NOTHING to the DPS of both Warhorses, Marksmen and Sarkis! 

    Infiltrators with low level Charged Ordnance sometimes get shot by their targets e.g. Napalm during the shock process and this happens for 2 reasons: 
    ♦ Low level Charged Ordnance keeps the target shocked for shorter amount of time.
    ♦ Infiltrators ROF is low compared to their Reload Speed. their targets might recover for a fraction of a second between shocks.
    Using Bandolier with Infiltrators can solve this by making the entire firing cycle take 1.83 instead of 2.35 seconds.



     
    Increases damage output by 24%  but makes the carrier take an extra 20% time reloading between clips. 
    The effect on Special Units is shown below: 

     Take Aim  Bandolier




    And since [Compressed Mag] & [Bandolier] are both in the same slot, while [Take Aim] in another. What about mixing the two together? 




    Lets see how this combination affect the DPS : 

    Take Aim  Bandolier






    How would this combo benefit the DPS : 

    Take Aim  Compressed Mag

    Credit to Krash-tyme for pointing out the RS stacking.


    You certainly must have noticed that Bro J's rates are not included in any of these charts! First we need a confirmation about his DPR & DPS
    i think the DPR added in that thread is for a level 1 Bro J. with a DPS of a level 20. ( DPR might be a round 4705)

    Also big thanks to Wrong Thinker on that thread of hidden stats! 


    Edit: Bro J. DPS increase with each component : 


    Awsome job...
  • Studly1
    Studly1
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    Joined May 2014 Posts: 215
    My questions i son the Marksmen(Now Commando).

     You show that it has a negative effect on DPS with "Take Aim" equipped only.

    So you are saying that -20% reload time negates all of the +24% DPS completely? My brain is not working correctly to see where it does. Help? lol



    -And would not [Compressed Mag, Heavy Ord, Ap Rockets/12%dps boost] be better choce?
  • meemadd
    meemadd
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2013 Posts: 1,227
    i'd say M4GX, Heavy Ord and Compressed Mag (bandolier on infils and Nightmares) and Sharpnel Ord in place of Heavy Ord on any SF you use just to kill other SF infantry. i do use Caution Order on my lead heavies in my infantry killing toon to negate Comp Mags 10% more damage taken so i can use Take Cover,otherwise i would use M4GX and Lead the Charge,but still think M4GX with Comp Mag would be better than Take Aim with Comp Mag,also keep in mind Comp Mag affects M4GX also. as someone else said im trying for a balance between damage taken and damage dealt
  • Studly1
    Studly1
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    ah true i forgot about it effecting the launcher, thats awesome thanks for the remind :)
  • MX36
    MX36
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    Joined May 2012 Posts: 3,205
    meemadd said:
    also keep in mind Comp Mag affects M4GX also.
    how do you know that?
    the M4GX has its own firing cycle as a secondary weapon. 
    P Sherman, 42 Wallaby Way, Sydney.
  • killer99999999
    killer99999999
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined May 2015 Posts: 1,770
    MX36 said:
    meemadd said:
    also keep in mind Comp Mag affects M4GX also.
    how do you know that?
    the M4GX has its own firing cycle as a secondary weapon. 
    would it be possible to test if compressed mag affects M4GX fire rate?
  • MX36
    MX36
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 3,205
    edited 11 Mar 2016, 7:56PM
    would it be possible to test if compressed mag affects M4GX fire rate?
    I did a quick test using an Infiltrator Leader (less sound noise due to low ROF) equipped with an M4GX alone. and another test with both M4GX & Com. Mag to see the difference in the firing cycle. here are the results:

    It's hard to visually determine how much changed in the reload speed and it's also not easy to find through a sound graph since there are too many things happening at the same time.




    Here's an isolated sound wave graph of only M4GX firing. you can clearly see the second one with the Com. Mag equipped has more grenades fired compared to the one without!



    I have both on video if anyone needs more evidence, but we can safely say The Compressed Magazine DOES affect the secondary weapons Reload Speed. thanks @meemadd for pointing that out!
    P Sherman, 42 Wallaby Way, Sydney.
  • meemadd
    meemadd
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    Joined Oct 2013 Posts: 1,227
    edited 17 Mar 2016, 7:21AM
    bandolier definately affects m4gx i tested infils equipped with m4gx with and without bandolier,a noticeble difference. so if bandolier affects them wouldnt it make sense that all techs affect each other? like say heavy ord would make m4gx 30% stronger? also tested commandos with m4gx with and without comp mag,same results m4gx shoots faster with comp mag,  my tests were done with one infil leader with c.o. only and then one of whatever i was testing it on with just m4gx and i tested them(several other SF as well) 5 times each and timed how long it took to kill stuff that took awhile to kill like maxed platforms and high level command centers and the results were obvious,even accounting for lag which will make killing times vary but results speak for themselves,both comp mag and bandolier increased m4gx fire rate
  • MX36
    MX36
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    Joined May 2012 Posts: 3,205
    meemadd said:
    both comp mag and bandolier increased m4gx fire rate
    While I agree with you on the Com. Mag. influence on the M4GX, I don't think the Bandolier would affect the fire rate! because the M4GX has only one grenade fired at a time. it would though increase the speed of the grenade reaching its target.
    P Sherman, 42 Wallaby Way, Sydney.
  • twentybelow0
    twentybelow0
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    Joined Jun 2013 Posts: 191
    When did it become necessary to have math degree to play a war game? 
    No wonder I get my **** kicked. 
  • mathewsiga
    mathewsiga
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 496
    When did it become necessary to have math degree to play a war game? 
    No wonder I get my **** kicked. 
    lol i feel you ha ha
    Some of the useful links

    Compressed Magazine or Bandolier ? by MX36 https://www.kixeye.com/forum/discussion/579636/p1
    Special Units Schematics: Favorite Builds by MX36 https://www.kixeye.com/forum/discussion/588379/p1
  • william harlos
    william harlos
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    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 186
    lol
    some much junk im lost
  • Charly R
    Charly R
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    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 55
    @MX36 I did some math on the Ultra Tank trying to see if the new Coolant Chambers are any good. With ROF increase of 40% I'm only geting a 12.9% gain on DPS. Can you please verify if that's correct? It seems very little increment.
  • bloodXespada
    bloodXespada
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jun 2015 Posts: 39
    Flagfish said:
    I used your calculations and made an Excel Spreadsheet. The way you explained it just makes sense and the numbers seem to come out correctly. Nice job.

    Below is a dropbox link to the Excel spreadsheet for anyone who wants it. Most of the common damage modifier mods are included. Let me know if find are any errors.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/2r32zu5sufcep35/WC SF DPS Calculator.xls?dl=0

    There's a slight error regarding Jeremiah's damage and a major error in the formula on how reload speed affects dps. I know this post was ages ago but just gonna put this out here for those who still use his excel spreadsheet.
    Charly 387 said:
    @MX36 I did some math on the Ultra Tank trying to see if the new Coolant Chambers are any good. With ROF increase of 40% I'm only geting a 12.9% gain on DPS. Can you please verify if that's correct? It seems very little increment.
    Yes that's correct.
  • SPARTA G.O.A.T
    SPARTA G.O.A.T
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    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 106
    GUYS WHICH IS BETTER...HIGH CALIBER STACKED WITH (R) MG4X OR HIGH CALIBER STACKED WITH HEAVY ORDINANCE...AND WHY?
  • Charly R
    Charly R
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 55
    It depends on the unit and its base DPS. Heavy Ordinance gives you a 30% boost, (R) MG4X gives you 4,200 extra DPS, If the unit has >14,000 DPS then Heavy Ordinance is better, <14,000 base DPS then (R) MG4X is better.

    That's my opinion, you also need to consider (R) MG4X has/adds splash damage to units.
  • meemadd
    meemadd
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2013 Posts: 1,227
    what hasnt been addressed is whether or not m4gx's increased reload speed is stronger than heavy ord,  when using comp. mag.  guess a test on a few hard targets is needed for that
  • Commodore_Leviticus
    Commodore_Leviticus
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    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 459
    will the grenadiers be added to the list?
    Your User ID is: 2939780
  • Breaking Barriers
    Breaking Barriers
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    Joined Oct 2013 Posts: 889
    **** that's an awesome data collection. Guess the days of just simple math and unit specs is over, lol. 
    Be Better Than Yesterday & Greater Than The Day Before That. Knowledge Is Power. 
    PAL Admin

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