Schmee's Ship vs Ship Simulator (OCT 11,2013)

Schmee
Schmee
Skilled Warrior
Joined May 2011 Posts: 431
edited 11 Oct 2013, 11:31PM
The new message board system completely hoses anything I try to change in this first file while updating the date in the main title. So... yeah. I'll just keep it simple here. The date in the title is that last time I updated the program.

I have pulled data from many sources, so to all of you who have pounded the numbers and the hulls into oblivion, THANK YOU ALL!

Schmee's Ship vs Ship Simulator: http://www.feralland.com/bp

(You many need to manually refresh the page to get the updated version)
TUTORIAL VIDEOS!
-----------------------------
Introduction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3duKnwRagpg
Ship vs Ship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U64gdGl3OdA
image


  • carwynpritchard+1
    carwynpritchard+1
    Master Tactician
    Joined Feb 2011 Posts: 2,345
    yay schmee is back

    quick question what is this maximus ship ??? lmao *seen what it was .... i didn't read it all*****
    Hugs'N'Rainbows Bitches
    BPS2

    If i seem nice i am gathering information so i can destroy you
  • Sharkbait_Knockboots
    Sharkbait_Knockboots
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 213
    Well done. I like the new version :)
    -Sharkbait_Knockboots - Level 79 - User-ID 3.171.853 - Start 13-Nov-2011-
    Limited Hulls: Avenger (1) - Destroyer ECM (1) - Greta's Nuclear Cruiser (5) - Grimshine's Berserker (1) - Harlock's Triton (5) - High-Lander's Nuclear Cruiser (1) - Nash's Lightning Carrier (5) - Phantom Nighthawk (1) - Spader's DNX (5) - Vassago's Interdictor (5) - Viper Interdictor (1) - Zoe's Stingray (5)
    image
  • Schmee
    Schmee
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 431
    If a weapon has splash and/or spread, move your mouse over the relative accuracy,
    AC: (7.1) in this example, to pop up the graph:
    splspr0.gif


    The graph is the area of the spread in blue, with the area of the splash in red.
    If the blue area is larger, there is a chance that no damage will be given to the target.
    splspr1.gif


    If the red area is larger, damage will always be given to the target.
    splspr2.gif


    The graph can be misleading when you read the accuracy. The accuracy is the chance that the rocket or mortar will fall inside the red circle. If it does, then it damages the target. A thin sliver of blue on the outside of the red is still a LOT of area that the mortar or rocket can land in, and not do damage. For simplicity of programming (too late for that really) I had the rocket or mortar give full damage to the target if it lands within the red circle. In the game, this is not accurate, so the performance might actually be WORSE than what is displayed in the simulator.

    NOTE: The performance of these weapons may be different during gameplay than what is presented in the simulator. The graph just gives you an overview of how the mods affect the weapon. The "relative" accuracy is unaffected by anything that affects regular weapon accuracy, such as engines, and is really only useful versus a stationary target.

    Like all accuracy ratings in the simulator, if the accuracy is greater than 100%, no extra damage will be applied, but the accuracy will still be useful in countering the effects of evasion in the Ship vs Ship section of the program (except for rockets and mortars).

    So what does spread and splash convert to?

    Based on firing a ton of mortars at a staionary ship, I measured that 3/8ths of the spread is the diameter of the circle that mortars will land in. Yes, my monitor has a bunch of tiny little dots marked on it that I then took to my base and measured, accounting for isometric distortion. The spash I am currently assuming is the diameter. The formula looks like this:

    relative accuracy = PI x (1/2 SPLASH)squared / PI x 3/8 x (1/2 SPREAD)squared

    That gives the % chance that the mortar (or rocket) will land within the splash distance of the target.

    ===========
    CHANGE: the formula has been changed to SPLASH / 3/8 SPREAD
    The previous formula was providing dramatic variation in accuracy.
    ===========
    splspr0.gif
    235 x 166 - 11K
    splspr1.gif
    117 x 117 - 6K
    splspr2.gif
    121 x 128 - 7K

    Schmee's Ship vs Ship Simulator: http://www.feralland.com/bp

    (You many need to manually refresh the page to get the updated version)
    TUTORIAL VIDEOS!
    -----------------------------
    Introduction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3duKnwRagpg
    Ship vs Ship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U64gdGl3OdA
    image


  • Schmee
    Schmee
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 431
    The "Maximus" hull is a hull that uses all available slots I have built into the simulator:

    maxius.gif


    - 10 weapon slots (underwater or surface)
    - 10 armor slots
    - 5 special slots
    (it will have 2 tactical slots when I build that portion of the program)

    This hull also serves as a fantasy ship, and can be used as a quick reference when a new hull comes out that I haven't put into the program yet.
    maxius.gif
    167 x 105 - 11K

    Schmee's Ship vs Ship Simulator: http://www.feralland.com/bp

    (You many need to manually refresh the page to get the updated version)
    TUTORIAL VIDEOS!
    -----------------------------
    Introduction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3duKnwRagpg
    Ship vs Ship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U64gdGl3OdA
    image


    maxius.gif 11.1K
  • oleboy13
    oleboy13
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 1,025
    Pretty cool, i plan on trying to figure it out now :).
    TrueTexan
    lvl 49
    "Its better to try and fail than fail to try"
    darksun98 wrote: »
    I think the super fortress will be like a unicorn. You know its there but you will probably never see one.
    Event Ships acquired: Corvette, Destroyer, Light Cruiser
  • Schmee
    Schmee
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 431
    At the bottom of the main window you will see the "DPS SPREAD" graph. This graph analyzes what ranges you have weapon coverage in, and how much coverage at that range. The colors correspond to the DPS values below the graph. Using this graph will show you what range your ship can best do damage from.

    dpsgrph.jpg


    Not all of the different DPS values will be shown if you have a lot of weapons, but the graph will show the lowest 11 values. I plan on adding a few more colors soon.
    dpsgrph.jpg
    824 x 97 - 16K

    Schmee's Ship vs Ship Simulator: http://www.feralland.com/bp

    (You many need to manually refresh the page to get the updated version)
    TUTORIAL VIDEOS!
    -----------------------------
    Introduction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3duKnwRagpg
    Ship vs Ship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U64gdGl3OdA
    image


    dpsgrph.jpg 15.7K
  • Schmee
    Schmee
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 431
    At a quick glance, you can see what types of weapons go into the slots:
    (you can also mouse-over the icon to see what it is)

    wepSB.gif
    - underwater weapons ONLY

    wepMX.gif
    - either underwater or deck-mounted weapons

    wepSF.gif
    - deck-mounted weapons ONLY
    wepMX.gif
    33 x 35 - 1K
    wepSB.gif
    33 x 35 - 1K
    wepSF.gif
    33 x 35 - 1K

    Schmee's Ship vs Ship Simulator: http://www.feralland.com/bp

    (You many need to manually refresh the page to get the updated version)
    TUTORIAL VIDEOS!
    -----------------------------
    Introduction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3duKnwRagpg
    Ship vs Ship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U64gdGl3OdA
    image


    wepMX.gif 1.4K
    wepSB.gif 1.4K
    wepSF.gif 1.4K
  • Demonichydro
    Demonichydro
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 1,315
    Schmee 1 prob bro.. any ship over the maraduer shows a 2 min build time.
    IGN:Xander
    Level: 57

  • salvoinbound
    salvoinbound
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 185
    Schmee 1 prob bro.. any ship over the maraduer shows a 2 min build time.

    He already stated:

    "===what's not working yet but I plan on it===
    - Build times, repair times and material costs not implemented"

    Thanks Schmee! Always enjoyed your tool's fast load time.
  • 00zau
    00zau
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 6,406
    The building damage for mortars is assuming that mortars have 100% accuracy against buildings, the same as accuracy based weapons (missiles and ballistics), which I'm pretty sure is wrong.

    Also, is the splash2/(3/8spread)2 new? IIRC before the update it was only splash/(3/8spread). As it is now, the rockets are showing some pathetically low accuracy (7.1% for assault rockets; though this would explain why they suck so bad), and some really low accuracy for mortars as well, generally less than 50% if there is no spread reduction (ERF or SC/DNX). Something hokey going on with the inherent bonuses on those ships as well; I don't think the acc on an assault mortar should jump from ~40% to over 100% with just the hull changing. The old numbers for acc made a lot more sense. As it is now, rockets show as more or less incapable of damaging their target. I'd guess that the way spread works is the RNG rolls a random radius, then rolls a random angle around the ring at that radius; this would make the unsquared numbers you were using before work. Visually this makes more sense as well, because shells would land more often near the target; if it was a random distribution across the whole area like you are using now, shells would be more likely to fall further away from the target. Looking at a couple battles, most shells seem to be landing pretty close to the target; if it was a random spread throughout the area, 75%+ of the shells would be landing well away from the target.
  • Schmee
    Schmee
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 431
    Okay I'll adjust accuracy for rockets and mortars vs buildings. I just did a quick blanket-fix for building dps. It won't show up for a few days.

    Splash / 3/8 spread seems good, but really if you look at the area of the circles, there are a lot of places the mortar or rocket can land that is outside it's splash radius. If you can link me to that formula you saw, I'll consider changing it if it's what the community understands is true.

    Based on what you said above, I'll test a version without the PI and the squared numbers and see what it looks like. If I like it then cool.

    =======
    Change implemented resulting in greater displayed accuracy for mortars and rockets, and less dramatic variation between hulls. (This means I liked it ;) )
    =======

    Schmee's Ship vs Ship Simulator: http://www.feralland.com/bp

    (You many need to manually refresh the page to get the updated version)
    TUTORIAL VIDEOS!
    -----------------------------
    Introduction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3duKnwRagpg
    Ship vs Ship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U64gdGl3OdA
    image


  • 00zau
    00zau
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 6,406
    The way you have it it is Pi/Pi, so they cancel, which is why I left them out (splash2/(3/8spread)2 is the same as Pi*splash2/Pi*(3/8spread)2).

    The splash/(3/8spread) was stolen from your old version of the ship designer (I peeked at the page source code when I was building a spreadsheet for DPS DPS/W calculation). I agree that there is a lot more area in the outer part of the circle, I just think that the calculations are set up so that shells group closer to the middle. If they use a random radius, random angle calculation (which is also probably a lot simpler than a true random scatter to program) the shells will corrolate better (50% of shells will land inside the inner 50% of the radius, and so on). This would also make large spreads less of a huge disadvantage; one tell is looking at the shock-A vs shock-L. For Impact and Strikes, the DPS for the L (low acc variant) and A (low damage variant), the DPS's are very close, and just a little lower than the N (low range variant). With splash/(3/8spread) the DPS are 78, 68 and 84 (L A N respective); with the splash2/(3/8spread)2 calc, DPS are 24, 48 and 59 (L A N respective). In the squared case, the DPS on the L variant is far below those of the others, while the old case gets a pretty close grouping, resembling the DPS differences of the strike and impact weapons (both of which have DPS differences between L and A of only 2-4 points).

    Also, yay for you getting a sticky back.
  • Schmee
    Schmee
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 431
    I made the change, so refresh the page and it will be there. I have rewritten so much of the code that I just blew through the "old way" of doing it. I do like the way it calms down the variation, and you don't get 400+% accuracy on the Dx hull with mods on Siege Mortar S.

    Schmee's Ship vs Ship Simulator: http://www.feralland.com/bp

    (You many need to manually refresh the page to get the updated version)
    TUTORIAL VIDEOS!
    -----------------------------
    Introduction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3duKnwRagpg
    Ship vs Ship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U64gdGl3OdA
    image


  • 00zau
    00zau
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 6,406
    Looks a lot better, thanks. Reminds me, I need to fix my DPS sheet, I have splash mods stacking as [base]*[ship]*[HE] instead of the [base]*([ship]+[HE]) that US (and you) use.

    lolwut, just realised your old acc calc was (spread/2.75-splash)/100, not splash/(3/8spread). I'd stick with splash/(3/8spread) though, it makes a lot more sense.
  • Pickles_the_Drummer
    Pickles_the_Drummer
    Greenhorn
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 20
    excellent work schmee, glad to see you have returned to making/updating this app. Will codes from Ultimate Shipyard work with this as well?
    Edit: whoops forgot to read description properly, dis regard the last part
    Let me guess. Not "heavy" enough? Not "tuned low" enough? Not "BRUTAL" enough?
  • Dr. Robotnik
    Dr. Robotnik
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 1,618
    can I imput a ship code from ultimate shipyard and get the same ship in this (so I can build there and test here befor I build one)
    I am Dr. Robotnik, not to be confused with my father Dr. Gerald robotnik

    I am another one of his experiments, his most powerful experiment....
    i like wafflz!
  • Dr. Robotnik
    Dr. Robotnik
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 1,618
    00zau wrote: »
    can you read the first page of the thread?

    yes but I didn't read anywhere that a code from the shipyard would work in this
    did I miss something?
    I am Dr. Robotnik, not to be confused with my father Dr. Gerald robotnik

    I am another one of his experiments, his most powerful experiment....
    i like wafflz!
  • Raptor1027
    Raptor1027
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 721
    definitely has some potential

  • Raidin
    Raidin
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 142
    Pogo1027 wrote: »
    i dont understand how to use this program. every time i click "ship vs ship" it doesnt display anything. i cant reconfigure the designs of either ship and when i click "destruction test" it says the ships are identical

    I'm having this issue also. Every time I place a ship on the ship v ship then make another one it overwrites the first one. What am I doing wrong?
    54 | Sector 21 | Life is hard, but it's even harder when you're stupid.
  • 00zau
    00zau
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 6,406
    Raidin wrote: »
    I'm having this issue also. Every time I place a ship on the ship v ship then make another one it overwrites the first one. What am I doing wrong?

    Read the first page, several features are down and work in progress right now

    Also, it looks like the hail-C has its weight set to zero right now.

    ==Edit==

    Hail/hells are also having their range increased by SFB.
  • justgreen
    justgreen
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2012 Posts: 596
    @ Shmee
    Nice work

    Great idea for the maximus..

    I like the fact that it can run smoothly on Internet explorer as opposed to USY ...

    I was calculating map speed ... and do you know if there's a way to add the bonus from the officer from the hall ?
    You owe it to the people. We're so happy we can hardly count.
    Everybody else is just green, have you seen the chart?
    It's a hell of a start, it could be made into a monster
    if we all pull together as a team.
    BP I.D. 441132
  • p_b82
    p_b82
    Potential Threat
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 97
    looks good with what is currently there - had missed the ability to factor in sensible DPS calcs - i expect with this update a few months back i would have not put some shocks on my SC's and gone straight with two sieges as i now have. Better late than never :D
  • Mantazz
    Mantazz
    Greenhorn
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 15
    Really nice update..thanks!


    Kbec_DF

  • RadMan81
    RadMan81
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 266
    justgreen wrote: »
    @ Shmee
    Nice work

    Great idea for the maximus..

    I like the fact that it can run smoothly on Internet explorer as opposed to USY ...

    I was calculating map speed ... and do you know if there's a way to add the bonus from the officer from the hall ?
    ultimate shipyard allows you to click fleet capton to see the bonus map speed...

    schmee i noticed with the assault missiles that the reload is 2 is this a error as i thought reload for them was 4 without any vxp and anwspme job on the program it kick ass and great too you ty for all the hard work!!!
  • Schmee
    Schmee
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 431
    Hey, I'm just back in from 36 hour ops. Okay let me see here:

    Hails/Hells showing range mod from SFB - FIXED
    (oh the woes of copy/paste in programming)
    Hail C weight data - FIXED
    (not enough placeholders in the data set)

    Map speed from officer: I will definitely add this. I just need to find a place to put the checkbox.

    The Ship VS Ship section is NOT working. (top priority)
    Resources and build time are NOT working.
    (just a matter of typing in the numbers ~ 4 hours that I'd rather spend on something more relevant to combat)
    Codes from Ultimate Shipyard are NOT working.
    It should take about 2 hours to implement this but that is a lower priority.

    I really do plan on getting all of these areas working ASAP, and in the order listed.

    Slow your roll, you crazy pirates. The "System Message" screen that pops up might actually have some useful intel for you.
    =======================
    Thanks for all of you all's help because I just don't have the time to check every option. Also, let me know of a "cool" feature you'd like to see (not fleet vs fleet or fleet vs base)

    Schmee's Ship vs Ship Simulator: http://www.feralland.com/bp

    (You many need to manually refresh the page to get the updated version)
    TUTORIAL VIDEOS!
    -----------------------------
    Introduction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3duKnwRagpg
    Ship vs Ship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U64gdGl3OdA
    image


  • Schmee
    Schmee
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 431
    Drac torp names changed (just an oversight on my part)
    Vortex now applies speed mod (I had put it under the siege torps)

    Schmee's Ship vs Ship Simulator: http://www.feralland.com/bp

    (You many need to manually refresh the page to get the updated version)
    TUTORIAL VIDEOS!
    -----------------------------
    Introduction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3duKnwRagpg
    Ship vs Ship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U64gdGl3OdA
    image


  • Schmee
    Schmee
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 431
    test1.jpg

    (this means the Ship vs Ship basics are working now)

    The DESTRUCTION TEST determines your most effective combat range. It compares the DPS and accuracy of one ship, against the armor, evasion and defense of the other ship at each range from 0-100. Each range has one red bar followed by one blue bar to the right of it.

    The tallest color bar is the winner at that range, surviving for the amount of time indicated. If a color bar is at the max time of 4m 0s (4:00), it most likely means that the ship was out of range of it's enemy. Ships within range keep firing even if they would normally be destroyed before the end of the time. That is why it is called a destruction test. Ships do not move during this simulation. While the simulation is not realistic when it comes to gameplay, it does provide useful data on the overall strength of your ship.

    Anti-mortar weapons reduce the DPS from enemy mortars based on the number of incoming rounds, and the number of anti-mortar salvos over time. (this is not very accurately done in this test at this time)

    Submarines with deck-mounted weapons have their DPS reduced on those weapons based on their dive time. If a submarine is outside of the enemy's detection range (all bonuses applied), it will only take a percentage of the damage from the enemy's weapons within range. Otherwise, it receives the normal amount of damage. (not implemented yet)
    test1.jpg
    859 x 180 - 24K

    Schmee's Ship vs Ship Simulator: http://www.feralland.com/bp

    (You many need to manually refresh the page to get the updated version)
    TUTORIAL VIDEOS!
    -----------------------------
    Introduction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3duKnwRagpg
    Ship vs Ship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U64gdGl3OdA
    image


    test1.jpg 23.7K
  • Schmee
    Schmee
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 431
    svs2.jpg


    Several kinetic simulations are under development:

    ABOUT THE SIMULATIONS:
    - Calculations are performed 4 times a secon at 1x speed. If you select higher speeds, the playback may be slower than expected depending on how fast your computer is.
    - The simulations have been altered slightly:

    DESTRUCTION:
    The destruction test simply takes DPS vs defenses at each range and makes a graph. It gives you a general idea what the best fighting distance for your ship is. Anti-mortar weapons just decrease DPS in the data. Submarines will be handled in a simplified way, decreasing DPS across the board if outside of detection range (based on dive time), and taking damage from missiles with laser targeting at 100% if within range and detected. (NOT IMPLEMENTED YET)

    RED HUNT:
    RED chases BLUE as BLUE makes a square pattern. The battle continues until one is destroyed. This sim uses DPS vs defenses as calculated in the DESTRUCTION test, but also includes combat and turning speed. Additionally, submarine dive times, detection range and laser targeting will behave like they should instead of decreasing DPS. (NOT IMPLEMENTED YET) To have BLUE chase RED, click the "SWAP" button at the bottom and run the simulation again. (NOT IMPLEMENTED YET)

    REVERSE:
    The REVERSE TEST uses the same method of damage calculation as the RED HUNT test. The two ships start at 120 distance apart facing each other. The red ship executes a 160 degree turn and moves to a corner, while the blue ship charges forward to intercept. Once the red ship reaches the corner, it will stop and the two ships will remain in close proximity until one is destroyed. This simulation provides feedback on how well your ship will perform this maneuver, a typical missile/artillery maneuver for slower ships. SWAP the ships for BLUE to make the turn.

    JOUST:
    The JOUST TEST uses the same method of damage calculation as the RED HUNT and REVERSE tests, but includes combat speed only. The two ships start at 120 distance apart facing each other, and charge towards each other. They continue to remain in close proximity until one is destroyed. This simulation provides feedback on how well your ship will perform as a blitz fleet member, and how well it can defend against a blitz attack. This simulation is not very useful for submarines, artillery ships or any ship using mostly weapons that have a minimum range greater than 30. The simulation is as accurate as the RED HUNT and REVERSE tests, but more entertaining in my opinion.

    PLATFORM:
    The PLATFORM TEST uses the same method of damage calculation as the RED HUNT and REVERSE tests, but includes combat speed only. The two ships start next to each other and move down a line of missile/ballistic towers, attempting to destroy them without slowing down or turning. This simulation provides feedback on how well your ship will perform during a raid event versus fixed defenses, and help you to balance speed, range and DPS.

    This post will be updated with more information when the tool is updated.
    svs2.jpg
    382 x 166 - 7K

    Schmee's Ship vs Ship Simulator: http://www.feralland.com/bp

    (You many need to manually refresh the page to get the updated version)
    TUTORIAL VIDEOS!
    -----------------------------
    Introduction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3duKnwRagpg
    Ship vs Ship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U64gdGl3OdA
    image


    svs2.jpg 6.7K
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