New Level Structure (Part 2)

  • Kickass BDS
    Kickass BDS
    Incursion Leader
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 1,426
    Doomstay wrote: »
    I generally like this idea. I do see two things that may be able to open the door to abuse of it however.

    1.) The +/- 5 range cap. At the point where some are within strict brackets and others have the range cap, this generates a situation where a single large player can be abusively attacked by swarms of lower level players. This can be readily addressed however, by adding a "retal" exception in the code, which allows those attacked by one normally outside their bracket to retaliate up to a fair amount of time after the attack. I figure said fair amount of time might be a minimum of 24 hours, and perhaps accommodates bubbles by allowing the attacked player to retal up to the time they allow their bubble to exist, plus 50%. Thus no bubble or keeping a bubble up to 16 hours nets 24 hours, but keeping a bubble for 36 hours would allow 18 hours after that. This would allow time for necessary repairs, but gives the retaliating player the chance to cut this to the minimum 24 hours if they so choose. One last restriction could possibly be only allowing them to retaliate against those who attacked them - and of course bubbles on their attackers prevent retaliation anyway.

    2.) Real power. This one is the real killer. Game experience is won by fighting, building, and gathering resources. If a player were to skip the experience gain from resource acquisition, one would still have the items a player who got that experience would have, with significantly less experience. Thus players who coin resources have tremendously greater power potential than those who don't. Add to this around the mid-20's defense takes priority and base defense HAS to be the primary item developed over fleets. What does this mean? Well, I'm such a player, level 32 (almost 33) and the only players who can field the fleets needed to break my base these days are a minimum of 34. What does this mean in terms of the bracketing scheme? It means the number of viable targets within a bracket drops significantly - simply remove the resource coiners for a realistic quantity, since nobody in that bracket will be able to hit their bases with any hope of a decent return. Sadly, I don't have the first clue how to address this second factor. I can say though, resource coiners may very shortly become the dominant force in the level 30+ game, using this new level scheme; they'll simply keep their defenses up, and send fleets out with no fear of reprisal, ignoring any bases similar to their own as impractical to hit at their level.

    this is why it is important for players to actually learn how to play the game instead of just pulling in resources. the biggest issue with alot of mid level players now is they have little experience with fvf and very little at base building. most have concentrated on the wrong things....building fleets of useless ships to rake in salvage and doing upgrades that should have waited. get your base in order first, then do ur fleets.
     Kickass (BDS)  
    Sector: CURRENTLY PLAYING "another game" (name redacted because of a forum mod's threat of a ban)............... because Battle Pirates Devs DO NOT LISTEN and REFUSE to do what is NEEDED  to put Battle Pirates back on track.
     ------------------------------------------------------------------- 
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  • darthvador1976
    darthvador1976
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 273
    SWAG... Maybe this was posted before, tough to read all these posts and keep up. Your original post says, "FYI, Current Level 30 will be Level 40 in the new system". But then in the bracket example it shows "29 => 40" and "30 => 43". So lvl 30 now will be a lvl 43, not a lvl 30. Correct?
    Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/darthvador1976
    Home Sector: 203
  • darrylwayne2005
    darrylwayne2005
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 1,131
    Nice, Now we can actually take a nice long 1-2 hour ride to hit a base :cool:. I like that. Makes retaliation something to really think about, haha

  • H4YDEN
    H4YDEN
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 1,219
    This sounds much better and like it has actually been thought about rather than just thrown out there

    I do have 1 concern. A FF or HH base fleet for example currently under the 850 range can take 25 minutes to get to a base. That's 50 minutes of travel time for 5 minutes of action. With the increase in range you will be looking at well over an hour travel just to attack 1 base which seems a little excessive. With this in mind would it be possible to consider nerfing the map speed on every single hull in such a way that the time to travel to the old maximum range for any ship build is no longer than it currently is to travel to the new maximum range?
    H4YDEN
    Sectors Visited 11, 14, 61, 95, 96, 102, 103, 105, 112, 125, 128 138, 139, 144, 151, 181, 190, 191, 192, 222, 223, 232, 240, 307, 310, 314, 367, 379, 381, 394, 437, 445, 467, 476
    Started playing 21st October 2011
    Youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/H4YDEN0503
    You don't need drac hulls to be good at this game, you need a brain 
  • dennis houtman
    dennis houtman
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 60
    TerryB10 wrote: »
    Your not listening are you? implement this and players will leave in droves inc myself and i spend lot's of money. For players like me lvl 35=59 my targets are still greatly reduced and i will have to travel up to 3 sectors to hit them. With a slow fleet it takes 20-29mins of travel , now ur asking us to travel for over an hour to hit some targets???? What planet are you on. LEAVE THE GAME ALONE IF IT'S NOT BROKEN IT DON'T NEED FIXING

    u did not read it correct now u even get to kill a current lvl29 base
  • Carl Salmon
    Carl Salmon
    Potential Threat
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 69
    FYI, Current Level 30 will be Level 40 in the new system
    28 => 37
    29 => 40
    30 => 43
    31 => 45

    so is 29=40 or 30=40

    not sure if any1 else asked/noticed this

    lol, i see it 4 posts up now ,,same question
    ;)
    DreadPirateCarl
  • darthvador1976
    darthvador1976
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 273
    Yep. I did Carl Salmon. Posed the question a few posts up...
    Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/darthvador1976
    Home Sector: 203
  • jonny cabbage
    jonny cabbage
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 1,345
    thank you for listening, having a free for all for higher lvl players is a much better system.

    cheers
     
  • Wicked Jester
    Wicked Jester
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 205
    The level adjustment doesn't seem to bad. But the +/- 2 sector travel? I don't expect people will want to spend that much time traveling. Your talking upwards or even over an hour 1 way. For this to actually be used I would suggest at least tripling the map speed on all ships to be able to cover that kind of distance in a reasonable amount of time. Just as and example, my fleet takes a little over 21 mintues to travel 1 sector worth of distance. If I am at the edge of sector and travel to the far side of 2 away, it will be an hour travel time each way for a 5 minute base hit.

    Another idea could be an intensive clearing of dead bases to allow active players to be less spread out.
  • Stuart Millington
    Stuart Millington
    Greenhorn
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 9
    Nice, Now we can actually take a nice long 1-2 hour ride to hit a base :cool:. I like that. Makes retaliation something to really think about, haha

    2 sectors should be less than an hour, unless you're sending a floata-potty.

    But the "your hands are off the wheel" time-out might need revising upwards to something like half an hour?
  • kris1019
    kris1019
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 3,474
    I like this much better. But what about travel times? It already takes 30 min just to get to the next sector.
    NOTE: Make sure you've read the rules for posting in this forum: http://forums.kixeye.com/showthread.php?t=185189 . Also be sure to read this post in it's entirety before you reply. Any posts that do not comply with the forum rules, will be promptly removed.

    Greetings Captains! We received lots of good feedback for the proposed new level system and attack ranges post. Again, the goal of updating the player level system is to provide a more accurate representation of each player's experience and power. It's great to see so many players giving constructive feedback on the game. We've taken your feedback into account and now have a new and updated system for attack rules in conjunction with the new player level system.

    Attack Distance Modification
    A lot of you were concerned over the number of attackable targets within your Level range. This is a valid concern and when we broke this down further we found that a related area of the game, attack distance, also played a key role in providing good targets. So we've decided to scrap the 850 max distance attack rule and replace it with a +/- 2 Sector rule. The 850 attack distance penalized players who were at the top or bottom edge of a Sector and also stopped a full Sector from participating in Sector wars. The new +/- 2 Sector attack rule means that all players in a Sector will be able to attack up to 2 Sectors up in either direction. This increases the number of valid targets and sets the stage for even larger Sector vs Sector wars.

    TL;DR:
    • The 850 max distance for attacking rule is being removed
    • A new +/- 2 Sector attack rule is being added

    Updated Attack Ranges
    Along with the new distance rules described above, we're updating the attack range rules to further increase the number of valid targets, especially for high level players. The +/- 5 Level range is remaining, but would no longer apply to players level 40 and above (currently level 29).

    Attack Range Summary (note all Levels are the new Levels):
    • Attack range remains at +/- 5 Levels up to Level 39.
    • Players Level 40 and above can be attacked by any player Level 40 and above.
    • Note, Levels 40-44 can still attack/be attacked by Levels 35-39 due to the +/- 5 rule still in effect for those lower Levels.
    • FYI, Current Level 30 will be Level 40 in the new system
    Combining the new attack ranges above with the new Sector distance range we get the following number of estimated valid targets for these levels:
    • Level 10 has 1200 targets
    • Level 20 has 840 targets
    • Level 30 has 630 targets
    • Level 40 has 420 targets
    • Level 50 has 220 targets
    By uncapping the attack range at Level 40 we triple the number of targets for Level 50+ players from 220 to 640. (Please note: for those interested in the math, we did not use the full +/- 5 Sectors' worth of data here; just +/- 1.5 Sectors' worth to be conservative.)

    In all cases above Level 10, this represents an increase in the number of valid attackable targets over the existing Battle Pirates system.


    Player Level
    The proposed Level system for player Levels is unchanged from the last post. We feel that as long as there are sufficient opportunity for players to attack other players, the new Level system is correct. For reference here it is:

    Under Level 18 stays the same, then:

    19 => 20
    20 => 21
    21 => 23
    22 => 25
    23 => 26
    24 => 28
    25 => 31
    26 => 33
    27 => 35
    28 => 37
    29 => 40
    30 => 43
    31 => 45
    32 => 48
    33 => 51
    34 => 55
    35 => 59
    36 => 65
    37 => 71
    38 => 78
    39 => 87

    Our goal is always to improve your gaming experience, so we welcome all feedback, including criticism as long as it is constructive and respectful. Thanks.
  • Crusher Sec 1
    Crusher Sec 1
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 114
    Yes, I failed at understanding it. That basically makes the module useless, in my opinion. Maybe if I had subs I might consider it as a flagship option, but even then...meh.

    They are not useless, I have used the microwave on my blitz fleet (yes I needed to take 1 armor of every ship) and I can sail out of the base again without losing my fleet :) I also use the subsonic on my Dic fleet and cuda's/stalkers/preds are getting killed easily. But that could also be the fault of the unskilled players I attacked ;)
    [CENTER]Nunc aut nunquam
    Dutch Pirates never surrender

    Home sector: Sector 1 [SIZE=3][B][I]'Better lose a fair fight, then win a fight cheating'[/I][/B][/SIZE][/CENTER]
  • Destrudo
    Destrudo
    Master Tactician
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 2,400
    2 more questions:

    1) can we expect different lvl salvages to appear containing newer ships or different combinations of ships

    2) how soon can we expect this to be implemented
    Lvl 23 - Vega Conflict
    Vega ID - 12417  
    No prizes yet as no raids yet :p
  • dennis houtman
    dennis houtman
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 60
    Teccie wrote: »
    Where does it say this in the first post ? The way it reads is a current level 29 who under the new scheme becomes a 40 cant hit anyone lower, meaning a level 29 will be kinda screwed... I dont see the +-2 rule for anyone 40+

    the -5 rule is still there
  • alexander dewinter
    alexander dewinter
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 25
    Significant improvement on the original proposal, not sure it was needed but much happier BUT still have other concerns:

    Lag / SOS / white screen- it may be my PC or internet but I have tried everything you suggest. I am not on my own by a long way so please fix the basics first.

    Just planned out a new fleet of strikecruisers - 72 days!! You have to be kidding me, build times are prohibitive, lets be realistic here if you dont coin you are at significant disadvantage - I am sure thats what you want but its not for me. Lets have a refit dock - its what we all want :-)

    Did I mention lag?

    Please kixeye you have shown you can listen, you just need to go the next step...........
    Zander_DS
    Old school but quickly losing interest
  • i_p_freely
    i_p_freely
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 149
    another shipyard would be nice instead of messing around with player levels.
    KIXEYE LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS
    ANOTHER SHIPYARD NEEDED
  • Khalsa_
    Khalsa_
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 68
    I have a question about the estimation of targets and the range issue. First to confirm, if I am in sector 100, I can hit bases in sectors 98, 99, 100, 101 & 102 correct? Second, did you use all 5 sectors to collect the targets or only the 4 adjoining sectors?
    Game Name: Khalsa 
    Alliance: Lapdance [LPD]
  • moforocks
    moforocks
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 1,827
    Ok, now can we double map speed! It takes an average base fleet 20-35 min for one sector... LMFAO! Yeah I can hit someone two over.... Oh crap it takes 2days to get there. And yes I know about map bonuses!
    TheMOFO_Resurrected
    YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Marcnstacy214?feature=guide
    **** HAPPENS, when you fall down, get back up!
  • mephist0
    mephist0
    Potential Threat
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 83
    You can always relocate to a sector where there are more targets for you to hit.

    Then you should allow people to move every hour. You should not have to sit in a sector for 5 days waiting to leave if there are no targets in the new one you jump to.
  • dennis houtman
    dennis houtman
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 60
    sparky392 wrote: »
    ok, if i understand this correctly under the new system i will be a 51(current 33) and if i apply the = - 5 rule this means i can hit 46 and up which if you use the conversion chart means there will effectively be a 1 down limit to who i can hit. please Swag explain to my simple dumbass how this equates to more targets available? effectively now i would be able to hit 1 down and unlimited up and there are not very many 34s and up anywhere near my sector. travel 2 sectors over to get my **** handed to by a current 35 or higher. no thanks. that would be a waste of 2 hours.

    you took FvF out of game with attack button and now you will do away with base hitting, what pray tell is left? salvaging? pffft. all this does is protect weaklings from attack and they learn nothing about base design or defense.

    Sparky

    u need to read it again 40+ is free for all and he's got the -5 rule because he's only 40 so a new lvl44 can still hit a lvl39
  • ark
    ark
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 1,056
    It is something to consider, but I can't make any promises. Still, you can stack Streamlining 3 and the new speed module for a nice boost.

    its a wast of a special when you only have 2 special slots.
    Warrior_Angel...level 30...sector 491...my base location:294174,72
    BI 5: winner of strike cruiser...BI 6: winner of HH-A

    http://support.kixeye.com/mail/
    The only thing this changes for you, if you are a high level player, is hitting bases so low that you have no business hitting them. What's the phrase... try picking on someone your own size?
  • Carlos Spicyweiner
    Carlos Spicyweiner
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 231
    There was nothing wrong with existing system so this change is for no good reason. Expanding the total distance is comical, they are just trying to force us to use the new modules when no one really wants to weaken a base fleet just to reach a target that would be 45 mins away with a normal fleet.
  • someone_you_know
    someone_you_know
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 286
    PAY ATTENTION!! there will still be a +/- 5 system in place so basically if they can hit you then you can hit them

    Updated Attack Ranges
    Along with the new distance rules described above, we're updating the attack range rules to further increase the number of valid targets, especially for high level players. The +/- 5 Level range is remaining, but would no longer apply to players level 40 and above (currently level 29).

    Attack Range Summary (note all Levels are the new Levels):
    • Attack range remains at +/- 5 Levels up to Level 39.
    • Players Level 40 and above can be attacked by any player Level 40 and above.
    • Note, Levels 40-44 can still attack/be attacked by Levels 35-39 due to the +/- 5 rule still in effect for those lower Levels.
    • FYI, Current Level 30 will be Level 40 in the new system



    I did pay attention :)
    note the text in red
    re-read and tell me where was i wrong
    [QUOTE=The R.;2809885]The insolent ignorance and atrocious arrogance Kixeye has yet again displayed here beggars believe, and proves, once and for all and beyond the shadow of a doubt, that they do not care the least, tiniest bit about their customers' opinion. [/QUOTE] 
    [QUOTE=silentraeth;2207352]However this is Battle Pirates and Kixeye, the company with a unicorn for a logo, is in charge of it.[/QUOTE] 
    [QUOTE=Hast at work;2153477]THIS is the bullshit you people have been cooking up while your core gameplay gets staler than a mummies ****. [/QUOTE]
  • mephist0
    mephist0
    Potential Threat
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 83
    The tactical lab module that increases map speed. First available tacmod.

    Still moronic. Now one less ship to attack a high level base?!?!?!?
  • dennis houtman
    dennis houtman
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 60
    Burke wrote: »
    Well, shoot, guess nobody will look at my first post (http://forums.kixeye.com/showthread.php?t=251468&p=2229924&viewfull=1#post2229924) and answer the question I have seen several people ask, so let's try again in a new post:

    .... You need to clarify whether or not people below new level 40 (e.g. level 39) can attack people above level 40 without the higher level person being allowed to retaliate. That sort of asymmetry would be bad. People should not be allowed to attack people who are prohibited under the rules from responding.

    u really don't read do u?
    untill lvl 44 there is still the -5 rule
    english is not my first language but i understood what they wrote on there
  • n0s_speed
    n0s_speed
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 3,636
    awesome! level 40+ is a free for all.

    with the +/- 2 sectors rule, are you guys going to do something with the map travel time? cuz right now to get to the border of the 850 attack distance takes over 30minutes 1-way depending on your fleet. i know there is a navigation array module that increases the map speed, but not everyone is willing to weaken their fleet.
    In Game Name: n0s_speed
    Alliance: DOA
    Level: 66

  • Carlos Spicyweiner
    Carlos Spicyweiner
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 231
    You can always relocate to a sector where there are more targets for you to hit.

    And how are we supposed to know how many targets will be within what we consider a reasonable travel range in a sector? I guess you think we have to poll our friends to survey the sector for us. Why fix what is not broken? Fix the numerous glitches before making these unneeded and unwanted changes.
  • captainbrian
    captainbrian
    Greenhorn
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 14
    2 things. first, to the people complaining about not being able to retailiate against lower lvls **** them. it specifically says ATTACK/ be attacked... that mean BOTH ways!

    Second, as i am lvl 31 now i will become lvl 45. i dont like salvaging very much. because of this i have no siege weapons. without siege i dont do well against most DU4 bases. so being able to be attacked by everyone above me and only being able to attack current 29+ isn't going to be easy. I kinda feel sorry for the lvl 29's as they're base defense surely will not be ready for lvl 36's that i can only barely hold off. Only those players 29-32 that did everything correctly from early on (focused on base defense while farming BP's) will stand a chance. I still say the best way to fix the issue you are trying to fix is to just change it to +3-3. fully open above level 32 isn't a bad idea as i'm sure 36's would lose too many targets with +3-3. new lvl 40+ should not become free to hit from all higher levels, maybe 50+? thanks for reading!
  • Burke
    Burke
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 1,005
    u really don't read do u?
    untill lvl 44 there is still the -5 rule
    english is not my first language but i understood what they wrote on there

    Read the original post again. It appears not to be as you are describing it.

    [This has since been cleared up. I will say I was confused. See here: http://forums.kixeye.com/showthread.php?t=251468&p=2230887&viewfull=1#post2230887]
  • someone_you_know
    someone_you_know
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 286
    untill lvl 44 there is still the -5 rule

    please quote that. i don't see a -5 rule anywhere
    [QUOTE=The R.;2809885]The insolent ignorance and atrocious arrogance Kixeye has yet again displayed here beggars believe, and proves, once and for all and beyond the shadow of a doubt, that they do not care the least, tiniest bit about their customers' opinion. [/QUOTE] 
    [QUOTE=silentraeth;2207352]However this is Battle Pirates and Kixeye, the company with a unicorn for a logo, is in charge of it.[/QUOTE] 
    [QUOTE=Hast at work;2153477]THIS is the bullshit you people have been cooking up while your core gameplay gets staler than a mummies ****. [/QUOTE]
This discussion has been closed.