New Level Structure (Part 2)

KIXEYE Swag
KIXEYE Swag
Unicorn Overlord
Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 3,665
edited 16 Oct 2012, 3:03PM
NOTE: Make sure you've read the rules for posting in this forum: http://forums.kixeye.com/showthread.php?t=185189 . Also be sure to read this post in it's entirety before you reply. Any posts that do not comply with the forum rules, will be promptly removed.

Greetings Captains! We received lots of good feedback for the proposed new level system and attack ranges post. Again, the goal of updating the player level system is to provide a more accurate representation of each player's experience and power. It's great to see so many players giving constructive feedback on the game. We've taken your feedback into account and now have a new and updated system for attack rules in conjunction with the new player level system.

Attack Distance Modification
A lot of you were concerned over the number of attackable targets within your Level range. This is a valid concern and when we broke this down further we found that a related area of the game, attack distance, also played a key role in providing good targets. So we've decided to scrap the 850 max distance attack rule and replace it with a +/- 2 Sector rule. The 850 attack distance penalized players who were at the top or bottom edge of a Sector and also stopped a full Sector from participating in Sector wars. The new +/- 2 Sector attack rule means that all players in a Sector will be able to attack up to 2 Sectors up in either direction. This increases the number of valid targets and sets the stage for even larger Sector vs Sector wars.

TL;DR:
  • The 850 max distance for attacking rule is being removed
  • A new +/- 2 Sector attack rule is being added

Updated Attack Ranges
Along with the new distance rules described above, we're updating the attack range rules to further increase the number of valid targets, especially for high level players. The +/- 5 Level range is remaining, but would no longer apply to players level 40 and above (currently level 29).

Attack Range Summary (note all Levels are the new Levels):
  • Attack range remains at +/- 5 Levels up to Level 39.
  • Players Level 40 and above can be attacked by any player Level 40 and above.
  • Note, Levels 40-44 can still attack/be attacked by Levels 35-39 due to the +/- 5 rule still in effect for those lower Levels.
  • FYI, Current Level 29 will be Level 40 in the new system

    For clarification: Level 35-39 can still attack +5 levels, Level 40-44 can still attack -5 levels.
Combining the new attack ranges above with the new Sector distance range we get the following number of estimated valid targets for these levels:
  • Level 10 has 1200 targets
  • Level 20 has 840 targets
  • Level 30 has 630 targets
  • Level 40 has 420 targets
  • Level 50 has 220 targets
By uncapping the attack range at Level 40 we triple the number of targets for Level 50+ players from 220 to 640. (Please note: for those interested in the math, we did not use the full +/- 5 Sectors' worth of data here; just +/- 1.5 Sectors' worth to be conservative.)

In all cases above Level 10, this represents an increase in the number of valid attackable targets over the existing Battle Pirates system.


Player Level
The proposed Level system for player Levels is unchanged from the last post. We feel that as long as there are sufficient opportunity for players to attack other players, the new Level system is correct. For reference here it is:

Under Level 18 stays the same, then:

19 => 20
20 => 21
21 => 23
22 => 25
23 => 26
24 => 28
25 => 31
26 => 33
27 => 35
28 => 37
29 => 40
30 => 43
31 => 45
32 => 48
33 => 51
34 => 55
35 => 59
36 => 65
37 => 71
38 => 78
39 => 87

Our goal is always to improve your gaming experience, so we welcome all feedback, including criticism as long as it is constructive and respectful. Thanks.
  • Hitman007
    Hitman007
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 8,990
    This sounds better
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  • Murmur
    Murmur
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 134
    I like all of the proposed changed except for the level brackets.I am used to expecting it to be a longer climb to the next level then the one i just reached.I know i am making progress by seeing my bar in the upper left hand corner fill up.I hope that part doesnt get implemented.
  • nsheldon37
    nsheldon37
    Potential Threat
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 55
    So I understand this correctly, would a current lvl 30 be able to attack any level from the current 28 and up?
  • Chief Tuskaloosa
    Chief Tuskaloosa
    Potential Threat
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 76
    Cudos, guys this looks a lot better than the earlier post. I like having a larger section open to travel in, but the travel times currently seem a little daunting to get to the end of the strike area.
    “If you must choose between two paths, either of which will bring death and defeat, then choose the path wherein you die fighting for honor and justice.” - Pan Ku

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  • KIXEYE CM Chris
    KIXEYE CM Chris
    KIXEYE
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 5,174
    nsheldon37 wrote: »
    So I understand this correctly, would a current lvl 30 be able to attack any level from the current 28 and up?

    Under this current new plan, yes, you are correct!
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  • faytar
    faytar
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Apr 2011 Posts: 775
    lol have to say looks like you caved to the crying of the high levels , bad form old man
    whs: 0 res makers: 0 interest in playing bp: 0
    Only players that Kix cares about are the coiners, want them to listen more of you gonna need to cut them off of your wallet.
  • ark
    ark
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 1,056
    this is a much better way to make it, i hope it comes into affect soon.

    keep up the good work guys.

    edit: if we can travel further can you help us out with travel times it currently takes me 20/30 mins to travel to the next sector?
    Warrior_Angel...level 30...sector 491...my base location:294174,72
    BI 5: winner of strike cruiser...BI 6: winner of HH-A

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    The only thing this changes for you, if you are a high level player, is hitting bases so low that you have no business hitting them. What's the phrase... try picking on someone your own size?
  • robocop
    robocop
    Potential Threat
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 90
    yeah this doesnt sound to bad.. this would be cool.. but what about the travel times? if im traveling that far i dont wanna have to wait like 2 hours to get there.... but we will see what happens....now all we need is another slot in our shipyards :)
    MagicNinja_SBS lvl 60 ID# 275467
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  • Firestorm29
    Firestorm29
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 110
    I have to say, killing off the attack range is a very good idea. Recently, I have had a few miners that were attacked from two sectors over, but their base was outside their range so I could not retaliate. Now I really can reach out and touch someone! ;D I also have to say I like how you prevent level 35~39 players from causing issues to level 40~44. I was thinking about expanding the brackets to cover larger numbers, but I think this works out better since it is a bit more flexible than simple brackets.
  • Mi Lady
    Mi Lady
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 259
    Thank you for reading everyone feed back. I think this new system can work however, I have one question..... will map speed be increased since we can go further?
  • colin.brown.353
    colin.brown.353
    Potential Threat
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 96
    I think that this looks a lot better in terms of, who we can attack. But with being able 2 hit 2 sectors owner ur talking like a hour plus travel round trip. With speedy ships
  • Firestorm29
    Firestorm29
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 110
    robocop wrote: »
    yeah this doesnt sound to bad.. this would be cool.. but what about the travel times? if im traveling that far i dont wanna have to wait like 2 hours to get there.... but we will see what happens....now all we need is another slot in our shipyards :)

    Welp, I guess those streamline hulls and drac armors are going to get a workout.
  • phroxenphyre
    phroxenphyre
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 5,284
    I think this properly addresses the concerns people had.
    Retired
  • C-Ray32
    C-Ray32
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 51
    I still dont see the need for the change but whatever
  • KIXEYE Swag
    KIXEYE Swag
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 3,665
    Murmur wrote: »
    I am used to expecting it to be a longer climb to the next level then the one i just reached.

    This is what we would like to change. Currently, the difference between someone who just became a level 30 and a level 30 that is about to become a level 31 is more vast that it should be.
  • KIXEYE Swag
    KIXEYE Swag
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 3,665
    Mi Lady wrote: »
    Thank you for reading everyone feed back. I think this new system can work however, I have one question..... will map speed be increased since we can go further?

    It is something to consider, but I can't make any promises. Still, you can stack Streamlining 3 and the new speed module for a nice boost.
  • Toruk
    Toruk
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 2,824
    My problem with this is the current speed of out fleets it already takes me 20 min to get to a decent base to hit so now i can go 2 sectors over so whats that 1.5 hours thats going to be a real drag fellas :(

    KIXEYE CM Robot said:

     But you
    never know...BP is after all held together in one big ball of duct tape.

    CM robot summing up the BP mess like a boss 
    Toruk lvl 70 ID 411XXX
    hulls won 
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  • Toruk
    Toruk
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 2,824
    It is something to consider, but I can't make any promises. Still, you can stack Streamlining 3 and the new speed module for a nice boost.

    but so stacked you nerf the defense of your fleet and we are all going to be fishing in a harder and smaller pool how will this be a good thing?

    KIXEYE CM Robot said:

     But you
    never know...BP is after all held together in one big ball of duct tape.

    CM robot summing up the BP mess like a boss 
    Toruk lvl 70 ID 411XXX
    hulls won 
    Interceptor, Nighthawk, MCX, DNX, SCX, DN, SC, JUGG, BS, BCX, BC, Alas Carrier, Vindicator, Rampart, Mauler, Stingray, Merc, thresher, Triton, Hurricoin, SF, Spec, Golly, Cuda, ssa, hha, hhb,
  • LUCKY-V
    LUCKY-V
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 1,103
    This seems like a much better solution.

    Aside from the travel time issues as ppl have already mentioned it would be nice to have faster map speeds.

    But I would also like to see some sort of indicator on a base that has been attacked and not yet repaired (maybe a white flag). Nothing worse that a long trip to a dead base.



  • DEADP00L
    DEADP00L
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 1,056
    So here is what they did the biggest players aka the biggest coiners got more levels to attack. The noobs got protection from the the level 31+ people that are now getting fleets that can do decent base hits. The players who just got done being level 25 - 29 farms for the big coiners are now the farms for big coiners again brilliant. Thanks again Kix in the eye. You are going to do it regardless so constructive criticism reserved.
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  • Burke
    Burke
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 1,005
    This sounds better than the initial description. There are some good ideas, not all just mine, in the threads linked at the following, if you have not already considered them: http://forums.kixeye.com/showthread.php?t=250673&p=2228137&viewfull=1#post2228137

    One question: Swag, your initial description said that each level currently requires 40% more XP than the previous level. However, it looks like that number should actually be 50%: each level seems to require 1.5 x the number of XP for the prior level. Is that wrong and could you give us some more details on how the leveling formula will work after this update?


    Edit
    Updated Attack Ranges
    Along with the new distance rules described above, we're updating the attack range rules to further increase the number of valid targets, especially for high level players. The +/- 5 Level range is remaining, but would no longer apply to players level 40 and above (currently level 29).

    Attack Range Summary (note all Levels are the new Levels):
    • Attack range remains at +/- 5 Levels up to Level 39.
    • Players Level 40 and above can be attacked by any player Level 40 and above.
    • Note, Levels 40-44 can still attack/be attacked by Levels 35-39 due to the +/- 5 rule still in effect for those lower Levels.
    • FYI, Current Level 30 will be Level 40 in the new system

    .... You need to clarify whether or not people below new level 40 (e.g. level 39) can attack people above level 40 without the higher level person being allowed to retaliate. That sort of asymmetry would be bad. People should not be allowed to attack people who are prohibited under the rules from responding.

    Answered here, thanks Paul:
    For clarification: Level 35-39 can still attack +5 levels, Level 40-44 can still attack -5 levels.

    [This has since been cleared up. I will say I was confused. See here: http://forums.kixeye.com/showthread.php?t=251468&p=2230887&viewfull=1#post2230887]
  • Mi Lady
    Mi Lady
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 259
    It is something to consider, but I can't make any promises. Still, you can stack Streamlining 3 and the new speed module for a nice boost.
    ok I know I should know this since Ive played so long BUT Im asking anyways...... Do you have to have hull stream on all your ships for it to work or just on your flag ship?:o
  • Toruk
    Toruk
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 2,824
    Mi Lady wrote: »
    ok I know I should know this since Ive played so long BUT Im asking anyways...... Do you have to have hull stream on all your ships for it to work or just on your flag ship?:o

    the map speed of a fleet is based on the slowest ship so yes

    KIXEYE CM Robot said:

     But you
    never know...BP is after all held together in one big ball of duct tape.

    CM robot summing up the BP mess like a boss 
    Toruk lvl 70 ID 411XXX
    hulls won 
    Interceptor, Nighthawk, MCX, DNX, SCX, DN, SC, JUGG, BS, BCX, BC, Alas Carrier, Vindicator, Rampart, Mauler, Stingray, Merc, thresher, Triton, Hurricoin, SF, Spec, Golly, Cuda, ssa, hha, hhb,
  • faytar
    faytar
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Apr 2011 Posts: 775
    This is what we would like to change. Currently, the difference between someone who just became a level 30 and a level 30 that is about to become a level 31 is more vast that it should be.

    yet by this way that same lvl fresh lvl 30 is throw to the wolves of every one above that lvl, really instead of adjusting the brackets to give the high levels more targets while still trying fix the system you took 2 steps forward then 5 steps back system suggested is more broken then it currently is
    whs: 0 res makers: 0 interest in playing bp: 0
    Only players that Kix cares about are the coiners, want them to listen more of you gonna need to cut them off of your wallet.
  • Viking Nation
    Viking Nation
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 119
    It is something to consider, but I can't make any promises. Still, you can stack Streamlining 3 and the new speed module for a nice boost.

    Yeah great ide on a base fleet lol
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  • MisterX
    MisterX
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 104
    This looks much better and with the removal of the 850 range this does open up alot of area to cover.
  • Zaharkan
    Zaharkan
    Incursion Leader
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 1,067
    This was something I was writing from the previous thread...

    After reading the comments I have sort of changed my mind.

    I would suggest that perhaps the level thing should change however work it like this. There should be two considerations:

    OP Level...Your "league" should be set by your OP Level. OP Level 1 can only hit or be hit by a OP Level 1. OP Level 5 can be hit by OP Level 5.

    If under the new level system a Level 51 hits a Level 33 (both having OP5) then the Level 51 who destroys 4 WH and 1 OP would get Total Resources x 60% x 54%.

    If the 33 defeats the level 51 in the same situation the Level 33 gets Total Resources x 60% x 154%

    Or we could really open it up by comparing Fleet Level vs. Base Level. If a player is level 20 then any player could hit them with a level 20 fleet or lower. Thus actually a Level 51 could attack any player as long as his fleet didn't exceed the opponents base level. So the only restriction would be Fleet Level. Sort of call it a pirates pride or arrogance and gives you a reason to keep those long ships handy.
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  • Sprouts
    Sprouts
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2010 Posts: 3,716
    A couple minor tweaks I would like to suggest.

    1. Make it level 50 and above that falls under "the sky's the limit."

    I was just hitting level 33 by the time I finished all researches and upgrades (except tac lab which didn't exist yet) - in other words, everything available in every tech tree.

    The average level 30 today is nowhere near where the average level 30 was back when I was 30. They are not ready for the bigtime. They don't become ready for the bigtime until mid-level 32 - and if you add in the tac lab, that would bump it to right around 33, or in the new system 50.

    2. Can we get an across-the-board increase in map speed for everything to account for the larger travel distances? I remember when it was bumped up last time (over a year ago), and it helped a lot.

    EDIT TO ADD: In fact, thinking about a map speed increase, it would help a lot with a ton of other unrelated problems that we also have. One of the raisons d'etre for insector hitting is that people don't want to spend a ton of time driving to distant targets. This should help with that argument a lot.

    And hey, I would actually be able to hit the sector to my north a LOT more than I can now. Right now they're either out-of-range or a 30-min one way drive, and I'm rarely willing to make the 30-min drive.
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  • Boomer8712
    Boomer8712
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 823
    Im a insector hitter.... waist of time going 2 sectors. I think what the players want is the **** ALLIANCE FEATURE.... OMG i have a head ache...

                          

  • tunder.
    tunder.
    Master Tactician
    Joined Sep 2010 Posts: 2,086
    TL;DR:
    • The 850 max distance for attacking rule is being removed
    • A new +/- 2 Sector attack rule is being added

    Just wondering if this will bring back the teleport bug, that if I remember right the 850 rule was made to fix it.
    Retired, Not playing BP with planes in it.
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