UPDATE: The Tactical Lab

  • Ollie99
    Ollie99
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 1,175
    Rumseeker wrote: »
    I can understand what you are saying but if you read the description of the module, for it to work it has to be in relatively close proximity to the ships for it to function. Exactly what that proximity is has not been elaborated upon yet. Subs will still be what they are and have been and this will not take away from that.

    Speculate much?? If you want to speculate fine, lets speculate. The anti sub module is designed to make your subs take damage against fleets that they normally wouldn't. The fact that they are so damaging to most fleets and that being underwater protects them from most damage is the reason they have such high repair times. Will those repair times go down now that subs are to be made more vulnerable? No, probably not. Who knows what they mean by "close prox" The top level module (lets say lvl 3) if not the mid level will most likely out range torps. To think other wise is just naive, or maybe you should cut back on the rum. That being said I would very much like to be proved wrong, believe me. Now lets speculate from the other side. Maybe the range is less than torps and they intend on you sacrificing your more torp resistant module ship so you can rain fire down on the subs from a distance with your other ships as it takes damage, while forcing the subs to surface. That would tie in well with the new number key functions for controlling ships. Either way they want us all taking more damage. I for one would love to see what the repair times on the module hulls are going to be, among other things.
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  • trojan66
    trojan66
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Apr 2011 Posts: 3,252
    auras electro magnetic fields, a crew of magical unicorns distracting the enemy ships so you can kill them, its all the same. As proven by the first post on this subject, this feature is already being mocked, and from what i can tell highly un wanted. The game already has a high enough complexity that adding another component especially one so farfetched is not neccessary. Please keep the game simple, as the game exists there is already a counter for any fleet someone can come up with. We dont need anti sub force fields you just gave us a 2nd sub hunter hull, we dont need an anti kiting fleet, any big hull with the same range and same weapons wins every time. What we do need is a 2nd shipyard or some form to exedite ship builds, i literally have 4 months of builds i need to catch up on dont add some silly sci fi hull we really dont need when we have adequate ships and tech as is
    :)
  • Michael Middleton
    Michael Middleton
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 812
    I really like the sound of this

    Needs a refit dock at the same time if we're going to get another hull too
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    Sortar wrote: »
    haha what an idiot..more money for king will and his tribe of merry idiots...you guys complain then just spend more...classic..
  • Nems Bond
    Nems Bond
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 365
    I am not much interested into this thing though it excites me... Any change is good and should be adaptive.. I would like you guys do not change too many things in short time. Its really hard to keep up to the changes you guys are making..

    keep game to the reality like you have been doing it till now.. This tech sounds like more like Magic Pirate..
    Why not allow us to fit the same modules in the existing hulls, i read the post abt it... as existing hulls are no match for Tac hulls.. Well i think whether existing hulls are match or no match is completly in ur hands.
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  • GE999
    GE999
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jul 2012 Posts: 63
    Let's make sure we keep this thread on track. Be sure to follow up your opinion with exactly why you feel the way you do. Keep it respectful or it will not stay. Thanks.

    BP for the most part has done a very good job of re-creating conventional naval warfare, this Philadelphia Experiment update gravely departs from the style of the game and changes it from a naval/pirate combat game to a magical naval game. The way that ships (currently) can complement each other (i.e. one ship having sonar and the others gaining its benefit without having to equip a sonar module) is much more realistic. Real warships (generally) cannot project fields that cause negative effects to their targets without also interfering with the operations of its own fleet. Especially anything EMP related; which is delivered either by smart bombs or cruise missiles, ships cannot generate an EMP and aim it at a target without risking affecting friendly ships as well.

    To accomplish what this tactical hull is proposed to do, there is only one feasible way that it can be delivered; by aircraft from an aircraft carrier. In order to affect an enemy out of range of your own ships you need aircraft to remotely deploy the counter active devices (or modules) so that they won't affect your own ships. Rather than make this new specialized hull something that's more just thrown together, make it realistic and make it an aircraft carrier; and give it the characteristics of one - large, slow, poor maneuverability, medium-high armor (something that should be allowed to be decided by the player), good close range defense put poor long range defense (i.e. vulnerable to long range missiles).

    Make the aircraft carrier such that it can equip the module, which is delivered by its planes (which would be done implicitly, no need to animate aircraft flying around the map, that would only cause more problems) to the enemy. The aircraft would then be delivering the module's effect via proper weaponry - sonar buoys to track subs, EMP/ECM smart bombs to slow ships down and so on depending on the modules intended effect. To balance out the ship, alter the weight of the module to be proportional to its effect. So the ship could have 2 armor slots, and 3 weapons slots - though limit the weapons to only short range weapons, say only weapons with a range of 45 or less and don't allow a special to be equipped on the ship. An aircraft carrier is the single most powerful ship of the seas, but due to its reliance on its aircraft for its defense, it can't defend itself very well from targets until they get into very close range.

    After the implementation of submarines in WWI, the next evolution of naval warfare was the aircraft carrier; which drastically changed how naval warfare has been waged ever since its introduction. As BP as a game needs to evolve over time, I would like to see it done in much the same manner that it currently is; where it more closely resembles real world conventional warfare. The whole idea of a specialized hull that creates area affects is foolish and a pie in the sky - the idea itself isn't though. It's execution is where this particular idea is failing, as its completely unrealistic and hard to try and fit into the game as a tangible item. Aircraft are the key items needed to complete this new idea in terms of creating a realistic delivery, and it follows that they would come from an aircraft carrier. Since carriers (irl) have always been a very powerful ship, they've always been the primary target of the opposing fleet; rather than throwing together a hull out of cargo ship, please take the time to fully develop this idea to its potential and use a proper hull to do so; which ultimately makes it a more reasonable method in which to implement the changes you are trying to add to the game.

    When new content has their roots in something real (or something that could be real) it makes it much easier to comprehend, and more likely to be accepted by players.
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  • Rumseeker
    Rumseeker
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 2,893
    Jim Waters wrote: »
    With sonar3+detection range of a stalker, you actually think those pod ships wont get in on any enemy sub? There isn't alot of room on a combat map, and herding subs is a heck of alot easier than people think. Yes we dont know exactly what "brought into close proximity with the enemy fleet" is, but for it to even be used over the normal tactic of hunting subs, its got to be nice to give up a ship in the fleet to use it!

    Herding subs into a direct fire zone is easy, but we don't yet know what the radius of these modules effects are, nor do we know what the speed of the Tactical Hull is, and using a Stalker as an example was not good lol. Even with engines that thing is easily the second slowest hull in the game next to a Toilet. It's a lot easier to herd Subs into a 94-96 fire zone.
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  • Rumseeker
    Rumseeker
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 2,893
    Ollie99 wrote: »
    Speculate much?? If you want to speculate fine, lets speculate. The anti sub module is designed to make your subs take damage against fleets that they normally wouldn't. The fact that they are so damaging to most fleets and that being underwater protects them from most damage is the reason they have such high repair times. Will those repair times go down now that subs are to be made more vulnerable? No, probably not. Who knows what they mean by "close prox" The top level module (lets say lvl 3) if not the mid level will most likely out range torps. To think other wise is just naive, or maybe you should cut back on the rum. That being said I would very much like to be proved wrong, believe me. Now lets speculate from the other side. Maybe the range is less than torps and they intend on you sacrificing your more torp resistant module ship so you can rain fire down on the subs from a distance with your other ships as it takes damage, while forcing the subs to surface. That would tie in well with the new number key functions for controlling ships. Either way they want us all taking more damage. I for one would love to see what the repair times on the module hulls are going to be, among other things.

    Not going to argue with that but I was not speculating. Not in the least. Guess we'll see what the end product is in the future. Its meant to give players additional options in the tactics they can employ. No-one is forced to build the lab, research the modules and hull or build it, let alone use it. Some in point of fact will not, some will, if for no other reason than to try it out for a few weeks to give it a thumbs up or thumbs down.
    Rumseeker
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    "Kicking the crap out of RRs wherever they Frubble"
  • Rumseeker
    Rumseeker
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 2,893
    GE999 wrote: »
    BP for the most part has done a very good job of re-creating conventional naval warfare, this Philadelphia Experiment update gravely departs from the style of the game and changes it from a naval/pirate combat game to a magical naval game. The way that ships (currently) can complement each other (i.e. one ship having sonar and the others gaining its benefit without having to equip a sonar module) is much more realistic. Real warships (generally) cannot project fields that cause negative effects to their targets without also interfering with the operations of its own fleet. Especially anything EMP related; which is delivered either by smart bombs or cruise missiles, ships cannot generate an EMP and aim it at a target without risking affecting friendly ships as well.

    To accomplish what this tactical hull is proposed to do, there is only one feasible way that it can be delivered; by aircraft from an aircraft carrier. In order to affect an enemy out of range of your own ships you need aircraft to remotely deploy the counter active devices (or modules) so that they won't affect your own ships. Rather than make this new specialized hull something that's more just thrown together, make it realistic and make it an aircraft carrier; and give it the characteristics of one - large, slow, poor maneuverability, medium-high armor (something that should be allowed to be decided by the player), good close range defense put poor long range defense (i.e. vulnerable to long range missiles).

    Make the aircraft carrier such that it can equip the module, which is delivered by its planes (which would be done implicitly, no need to animate aircraft flying around the map, that would only cause more problems) to the enemy. The aircraft would then be delivering the module's effect via proper weaponry - sonar buoys to track subs, EMP/ECM smart bombs to slow ships down and so on depending on the modules intended effect. To balance out the ship, alter the weight of the module to be proportional to its effect. So the ship could have 2 armor slots, and 3 weapons slots - though limit the weapons to only short range weapons, say only weapons with a range of 45 or less and don't allow a special to be equipped on the ship. An aircraft carrier is the single most powerful ship of the seas, but due to its reliance on its aircraft for its defense, it can't defend itself very well from targets until they get into very close range.

    After the implementation of submarines in WWI, the next evolution of naval warfare was the aircraft carrier; which drastically changed how naval warfare has been waged ever since its introduction. As BP as a game needs to evolve over time, I would like to see it done in much the same manner that it currently is; where it more closely resembles real world conventional warfare. The whole idea of a specialized hull that creates area affects is foolish and a pie in the sky - the idea itself isn't though. It's execution is where this particular idea is failing, as its completely unrealistic and hard to try and fit into the game as a tangible item. Aircraft are the key items needed to complete this new idea in terms of creating a realistic delivery, and it follows that they would come from an aircraft carrier. Since carriers (irl) have always been a very powerful ship, they've always been the primary target of the opposing fleet; rather than throwing together a hull out of cargo ship, please take the time to fully develop this idea to its potential and use a proper hull to do so; which ultimately makes it a more reasonable method in which to implement the changes you are trying to add to the game.

    When new content has their roots in something real (or something that could be real) it makes it much easier to comprehend, and more likely to be accepted by players.

    Actually that is where you are wrong. An aircraft carrier is NOT needed as you imply. While yes that is one possible scenario.

    Effectively these modules are a modification to a directed energy weapon. Which by the way are already in operation in the real world military of today.
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  • ronnocbold99
    ronnocbold99
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 34
    Amazing idea :D
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  • Bill Mickley
    Bill Mickley
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 219
    Why after going through the 70 pages of post's when you first put this out do you still think everyone want's a new hull? The Tac mod seem ok, But I think most are not worthless. The new hull is worthless as I am still losing 1/5 my fleets firepower.
    The sub mod, I all ready out range them so why make them surface?
    Slowing enemy ships is OK. I do hate having to chase faster ships.
    Reduce incoming damage, great for base attacking.
    More map speed, Worthless.

    After going through the last thread, you really should just drop the new hull, add an extra slot to every ship you have now, and tag this as a FLAGSHIP only mod with little to no weight. I think less would complain about wasting time, and resources to build them. If many do so at all.
  • nopenope
    nopenope
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 163
    The new hull is worthless as I am still losing 1/5 my fleets firepower.

    Actually, making you sacrifice the firepower for a tactical bonus makes sense, because then you have to think about which of those (tactical advantage vs. firepower) you need more. I'm guessing that's why they're not planning to add a 6th slot for the tacmod hull.
  • Phenixts
    Phenixts
    Greenhorn
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 5
    My only question is if this is going tobe more or less an electronic warfair ship. How many specials will it have ? if fleet is to protect it. It should also carry or be able to carry missle jammer and a larger sonar array to protect fleet as well as this electro magnetic shield.:D
  • Bill Mickley
    Bill Mickley
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 219
    Actually, making you sacrifice the firepower for a tactical bonus makes sense, because then you have to think about which of those (tactical advantage vs. firepower) you need more. I'm guessing that's why they're not planning to add a 6th slot for the tacmod hull.

    They would be better off doing so. Now I could be wrong here, but I really don't see any FvF battles that happen. At least in my sector I see none at all. The lab its self is a good damage sponge, but the new ship is not really worth it, and since I have 5 or 6 hull's I never build why add another that will not get built?
  • andyace21
    andyace21
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 295
    hmmm still not seen any thing about a size of this new ship or how long it would take to bild with a modle or the size of the new lab howbig will it be ? too big and it get sniped a lot
  • MasterChan Captainof Halo
    MasterChan Captainof Halo
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 190
    Show us a video on it Swag I would like to see it in action k ?
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  • Ollie99
    Ollie99
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 1,175
    Rumseeker wrote: »
    Not going to argue with that but I was not speculating. Not in the least. Guess we'll see what the end product is in the future. Its meant to give players additional options in the tactics they can employ. No-one is forced to build the lab, research the modules and hull or build it, let alone use it. Some in point of fact will not, some will, if for no other reason than to try it out for a few weeks to give it a thumbs up or thumbs down.

    Without concrete facts it is speculation on all of our parts. You have no idea to what degree it will effect subs anymore than I do. To say they will operate as they always have when they can now be sucked out of the water is ridiculous. But I can see the writing on the wall and realize what is more likely going to be the case. As for building it or not, we are in a virtual arms race with our fellow players. Very few countries actually want to nuke their neighbors but it doesn't stop them from building nukes, if they can, just in case. If there is no other option left in order to be competitive with fellow pirates, and possibly in future raids, than to build these ships then it really isn't a choice unless you just like to lose. I don't think many people that play this game like to lose and that is exactly what Kix is banking on. Nothing wrong with that mind you they are in business to make money as they should be.
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  • Ollie99
    Ollie99
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 1,175
    Rumseeker wrote: »
    Actually that is where you are wrong. An aircraft carrier is NOT needed as you imply. While yes that is one possible scenario.

    Effectively these modules are a modification to a directed energy weapon. Which by the way are already in operation in the real world military of today.

    Modules ships aren't needed either. And focused microwave pulse, focused EMP or LRADs are one thing, forcing a sub to surface under fire is quite another. Not that the realistic aspect is really a big deal for me anyway but as long as the subject came up... I even once tried to get sharks with frick'n laser beams on their heads for my channel but if that thread still exists which I doubt it's an old wishlist post now.
    "Whoever said laughter is the best medicine never had gonorrhea."

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  • Rumseeker
    Rumseeker
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 2,893
    Ollie99 wrote: »
    Modules ships aren't needed either. And focused microwave pulse, focused EMP or LRADs are one thing, forcing a sub to surface under fire is quite another. Not that the realistic aspect is really a big deal for me anyway but as long as the subject came up... I even once tried to get sharks with frick'n laser beams on their heads for my channel but if that thread still exists which I doubt it's an old wishlist post now.

    It's a little James Bondish I know, but it's not outlandish given the mechanics as a pinch can force up a submerged fleet of Subs.
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  • John Devereux
    John Devereux
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 22
    i agree with silentraeth(last post on first thread/page)you should be able to select ability for the fleet instead of trying to work out what best combination works...your going to at least lose one special weapon slot, when your going to have to change(refit ship) if combination dont work, so then more time wasted because we can only build/refit a ship at one time, we need the dry dock for refits if this ability comes into effect.
  • sean m
    sean m
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 486
    i still think this move will wreck the game
  • Michael Middleton
    Michael Middleton
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 812
    Just had an idea that's related to this idea. It comes off a suggestion in general forum for the Aura ship. Which had Techlab built into the Great Hall to make the building half useful and using officers assigned to specific ships adding the capabilities that would be created by the aura

    ie quicker turning for fleet because you have a master helmsman on your flagship.

    If the officer idea is not such a hot one how about this. You can upgrade the Great Hall once - this allows it to be placed half on water half on land. And allows you to research modules in it.

    You can refit these modules - once you have researched one module you can refit a single ship in the Great Hall.

    These modules take up 1 weapon slot - so you have to weight up carrying less firepower for this special ability. You can carry as many modules on a ship as tonnage and weapon slots will allow. However only one ship in each fleet could carry modules.

    Reason why I say a current ship as has been mentioned if the tech-ship goes slower than your other ships then it gets dropped back and gets hit first ability lost.

    Pros - ship looks like other ships, moves like other ships, no more hulls to research/build, can refit ships with modules in this building so allows you to get ahead on ship refits (you CAN'T) change armour or refit weapons in the building only add modules in place of weapons (you can take weapons off to make room for module), as great hall would be half on land half on sea you get 2 land tiles back!!

    Con - no new ship class, more difficult to target since all look same, more difficult bases with extra land...
    My piece of Battle Pirates Fan Fiction: http://forums.kixeye.com/threads/125229-The-Battle-Pirates-story Hope you enjoy!!

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    Sortar wrote: »
    haha what an idiot..more money for king will and his tribe of merry idiots...you guys complain then just spend more...classic..
  • orcaone
    orcaone
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 1,168
    A lot of the effect of this new ship will depend on its ability to keep up with the rest of the fleet. If it has enough speed, we will see people just stick that "Reduce damage to friendly fleet" and tag along with four SC to blitz base. If you are not online to target that ship with your turrets or guard fleet, the rush fleet will have a free meal.
  • PlasmaSmiley43
    PlasmaSmiley43
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 250
    blitzing will definately be harder to do, nice job KIXEYE! this makes me oh so happy
    Plasma, sector 208, sectors visited: 123.208.209.287.372.487
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  • PlasmaSmiley43
    PlasmaSmiley43
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 250
    Just had an idea that's related to this idea. It comes off a suggestion in general forum for the Aura ship. Which had Techlab built into the Great Hall to make the building half useful and using officers assigned to specific ships adding the capabilities that would be created by the aura

    ie quicker turning for fleet because you have a master helmsman on your flagship.

    If the officer idea is not such a hot one how about this. You can upgrade the Great Hall once - this allows it to be placed half on water half on land. And allows you to research modules in it.

    You can refit these modules - once you have researched one module you can refit a single ship in the Great Hall.

    These modules take up 1 weapon slot - so you have to weight up carrying less firepower for this special ability. You can carry as many modules on a ship as tonnage and weapon slots will allow. However only one ship in each fleet could carry modules.

    Reason why I say a current ship as has been mentioned if the tech-ship goes slower than your other ships then it gets dropped back and gets hit first ability lost.

    Pros - ship looks like other ships, moves like other ships, no more hulls to research/build, can refit ships with modules in this building so allows you to get ahead on ship refits (you CAN'T) change armour or refit weapons in the building only add modules in place of weapons (you can take weapons off to make room for module), as great hall would be half on land half on sea you get 2 land tiles back!!

    Con - no new ship class, more difficult to target since all look same, more difficult bases with extra land...

    "the new ship will only have 1 weapon slot", which is a very fair thing to do, quote by Lou Seal
    Plasma, sector 208, sectors visited: 123.208.209.287.372.487
    favorite ship I have: Battlecruiser:)favorite ship in game: Battlecruiser:)favorite forsaken ship: SeaScorpion.
    favorite special: Guidance Scramblers. (you don't take damage if you don't get hit)
    favorite weapon I have: Assault Missiles:)favorite weapon in game: Siege Mortar:)favorite forsaken weapon: Thud Cannons.
    Plasma, level 45, ships won; Battlecruiser, Light Cruiser, Destroyer, frigate, Corvette, Leviathan A, SeaScorpion A.
  • labaron26
    labaron26
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jul 2010 Posts: 1,177
    I see no problem with this update when it comes...it adds to the enjoyment of the game.....Thanks Kixeye.
  • Evil Ares
    Evil Ares
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 816
    It sounds cool and it's going to add yet another aspect to the game that will make our fleets dominate, both against Dracs and other players. And I really appreciate that the building is water based!

    I'm opposed to a new hull just because I like all my ships going the same speed and same turning, and it's probably going to be impossible to do that with this ship in the fleet of 4 others. Please rethink the hull - here's my suggestion.

    Instead of a ship, why not a large mod we could add to a ship that we would research in the Tactical Lab itself. Each hull could have it's own version. What I mean by this is there would be a "Battle Barge Tac Mod", "Hammerhead Tac Mod", "Floating Fortress Tac Mod", etc.

    Each ship would have a "new spot" on it, so this is not a weapon, special or armor. Each mod would need to be researched starting from small ship to large ship in order to use them. Once built on a ship, You would need to click on that portion of the ship once completed and add the "special effect".

    Additionally, the mods would weigh a good deal - maybe 3000 or more tons for a Hammerhead. The reason for this is to make that one ship "underpowered" as was stated in the thread. The mod would also change the color of the ship, or give it something that makes it stand out so we know which ship it is.

    I understand that you've probably coded it the other way already, and that doing it the way I suggested will probably take a lot of work. But again I state: I'm not a fan of using different ships in a fleet because they are not the same speed or have the same turn speed. It's hard enough controlling 5 of the same designed ships to keep up with each other.

    Regardless of how it's released, I look forward to having something to spend my resources on finally!
  • DelRico
    DelRico
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 174
    Perfect, now that you removed the magical aura thing from the vocabulary, I really am looking forward to this new update. And keep on bringing more hull, thats what makes the game interesting : Variety and other tactics based on hull chosen.
  • Debs
    Debs
    Potential Threat
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 89
    I guess i've been playing game too long. I liked this game a year ago. I've adjusted to changes I don't like. the game is evolving but starting to remind me more of a "hippy" game. No offense to hippies. But the pirates arn't really about peace and rainbows. More and more players are using **** bbls and cry about getting attacked. they especially hate when someone 5 lvls higher hit them. Come on why play a battle game if you don't want to battle? As for me there is nothing left to do but build flts. Each ship takes a minimum of 9 days to build and that's just step one. Yet you continue to give more ships. I guess from a business aspect you hope that people will coin more to get them and i'm sure they will. For the rest of us well....I personally will continue to use outdated ships
  • coolkid12239
    coolkid12239
    Potential Threat
    Joined Mar 2011 Posts: 51
    deadmeat68 wrote: »
    For me, the biggest issue with this "technology" is it adds another hull to the already massive hull/refit build bottleneck. At level 32, I already have 6 hulls that I have never built. If I build a fully fit fleet of each of them, I am looking at almost 2 years of build time! This new hull just extends an already outrageous building que.

    It is obvious, by this new attempt to explain the change and Paul Preece's very defensive attempts in the original thread, that the tech lab, hull, etc are going to be introduced no matter how many of your customers do not want it. So, I am going to request that you please do something about build/refit/repair times BEFORE you introduce the tech lab and it's magical technology.

    I agree with this so much, stop allowing the powerful to get more powerful and leaving the weak behind
  • Tsunami-OFC
    Tsunami-OFC
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jul 2012 Posts: 28
    In response,

    After going back and reading the thread, still alot of opposition to the Tac Hull and the modules.

    If we are to forgo the experience of having a Extra hull to deal with one possibility that MIGHT help out with it is if it can carry equal amount of cargo to say a FF. That would at the very least counter some of the opposition you are experiencing. Now with that said, Swag you mentioned and compared the Tac Hull to a healer in another mmorpg during PVP or PVE. True we always went for the healer but heck trying to kill some the healers was a mute point, without stuns etc or some kind of crowd control.

    Why not possibly take this into consideration, for game balance, go ahead and toss the building in, rather than another hull...possibly the following:

    Be able to research each special map speed, ship slowing ability, counter subsurface, and reduced damage 5 to 10 levels of each

    Rather than substitute in a majorly heavy module taking away firepower which is needed severely to kill the toilets in the game, (which by the way 5 toilets is near impossible to destroy to take a base), allow them to fit a special slot, only allowing one tactical module per fleet or yes even a weapons slot.

    Simply put adding another hull will not increase revenue by all that much however the research on the modules might along with refits. Bottom line is company income, we understand this. As a medium ground, please consider what people are writing here. The game is fun to play and has everything needed with exception to certain features the players have majorly expressed their want for. I will not mention these features as you already are aware of them.

    Please find common ground between your company and the players......Can't make everyone happy, we know this, but giving ground and listening will go a long way with the community at large.

    The old adage "You can sell ice cubes to Eskimo's" does not apply here, consumers are more savvy than they were years ago. Adding a priest or a paladin to a fleet, bad juju mate. Will make the Goliaths even more OP than they are.

    Lime Green Goatee Swag....Think bout it......
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