Stalker Submarine Balancing

KIXEYE Swag
KIXEYE Swag
Unicorn Overlord
Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 3,665
edited 4 Apr 2012, 12:38PM
The community has been vocal on the subject of the usefulness of Stalker Submarines.

Based on your feedback we will be making two changes to the Stalker that should increase its versatility in combat. The proposed changes will allow the Stalker to:
  • Use all 4 of its weapon slots to equip Havoc Torpedoes (2 can still use other weapons if desired).
  • Increase the maximum range of Sonar Pods (while equipped) to make opposing submarines easier to spot from a distance.

These changes will make the Stalker more effective against enemy ships, especially submarines.
  • Captain_Dread
    Captain_Dread
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    Nice 1, I might build some now
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  • Flo
    Flo
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    You counter 1 update with another one...like always
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  • Admiral_Ackabar
    Admiral_Ackabar
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 5,543
    will the repair and build times still be equivilant to a HH or FF build?

    edited the last part due to reading the other thread on sub specials.
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  • KarateGarate
    KarateGarate
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    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 241
    will the repair and build times still be equivilant to a HH or FF build?

    edited the last part due to reading the other thread on sub specials.

    I see this as the biggest draw back to stalkers as they are now. I hope this is fixed as this would go a longer way towards seeing them get more use.
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  • Admiral_Ackabar
    Admiral_Ackabar
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    I see this as the biggest draw back to stalkers as they are now. I hope this is fixed as this would go a longer way towards seeing them get more use.

    takes 4 hours to repair a stalker sub with 2 DU4 panals and 2-3 hours for a HH/FF, before weapons its kinda crazy.


    Unless of course Dock II gets released that allows a decrease in repair and build times?


    then I'd be overly excited about all this.
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  • dgoddard
    dgoddard
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    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 57
    still they are as slow as molasses and way too long to repair.
  • oleboy13
    oleboy13
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    dgoddard wrote: »
    still they are as slow as molasses and way too long to repair.

    Yeah... kinda a problem still.... :o
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  • Dark Lord Chuckles
    Dark Lord Chuckles
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    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 3,227
    I don't use stalkers because the cost too much to build, are too slow and take too long to repair. Sub repair times are another area where the community has been vocal, so you should pay attention to that instead I think.
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  • A3Sapper
    A3Sapper
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 332
    Add a 3rd special slot. Make it like a underwater SW. That Would make it useful.
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  • Shadow of Omega
    Shadow of Omega
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 1,378
    takes 4 hours to repair a stalker sub with 2 DU4 panals and 2-3 hours for a HH/FF, before weapons its kinda crazy.


    Unless of course Dock II gets released that allows a decrease in repair and build times?


    then I'd be overly excited about all this.

    I assume you mean shipyardII which is only for decreasing weight of DRAC tech ONLY, as far as I understood. I have it and haven't noticed any other differences. Maybe Shipyard III (with Intell LAB 10, War Academy 10, and Rocket 5 as pre reqs) can be introduced which will reduce repair time and cost. Would be nice and would be something to look forward to seeing as I am nearing the end of my research and upgrades.

    Anyways, I dig this idea Swag. I rather these get stronger (since they are inferior to everything because of time) than the preds (which are stronger than most ships, especially aka ships on auto pilot)

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  • Admiral_Ackabar
    Admiral_Ackabar
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    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 5,543
    I assume you mean shipyardII which is only for decreasing weight of DRAC tech ONLY, as far as I understood. I have it and haven't noticed any other differences. Maybe Shipyard III (with Intell LAB 10, War Academy 10, and Rocket 5 as pre reqs) can be introduced which will reduce repair time and cost. Would be nice and would be something to look forward to seeing as I am nearing the end of my research and upgrades.

    Anyways, I dig this idea Swag. I rather these get stronger (since they are inferior to everything because of time) than the preds (which are stronger than most ships, especially aka ships on auto pilot)

    Dock 2 Shipyard 3, same diff, high endgame pre reas and long time to upgrade and reduce build n repair

    Times by x hours or percent, prefer dock so you can still build
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  • total burnination
    total burnination
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    yay thats awesome now i can use stalkers another cool thing would be to add one more special
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  • Phule
    Phule
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    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 270
    I like it, my stalkers, which I had built specifically to deal with the preds were disappointingly ineffective. Increasing the sonar distance of the stalkers will allow me to kill the (nearly) insta repair predators handily. I wish the stalkers were faster both in turning and in speed but that's too much to ask for I guess.
  • Joshua Philp
    Joshua Philp
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 702
    4 x Havoc IVs per Stalker, that's gonna hurt!!
  • Carl Murray
    Carl Murray
    Greenhorn
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 17
    in a pred v stalker battle preds can easily outmanoeuvre stalkers and even nail them while they on the surface while the preds are underwater , it does need a overhaul into a more combat effective unit
  • Captain Crapalot
    Captain Crapalot
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    The Stalker definitely need more speed, talking of which, it is plain disappointing how little difference the engine 2 does in terms of speed. It makes me wonder if going for engine 3 are worth it?

    The 4 torpedoes would be great though.
  • telemarks
    telemarks
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 637
    Like the changes, but not enough to make stalkers useful yet. They are sttill to slow, and turn like a supertanker.
    Add a 3rd special slot. Make it like a underwater SW. That Would make it useful.
    Agree with this, at least them you could use a special to increase the speed or turn, and still have two specials to help attack and defend.

    Give us 3 specials on Stalkers please.
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  • Damian Harris
    Damian Harris
    Potential Threat
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 29
    takes 4 hours to repair a stalker sub with 2 DU4 panals and 2-3 hours for a HH/FF, before weapons its kinda crazy.


    Unless of course Dock II gets released that allows a decrease in repair and build times?


    then I'd be overly excited about all this.

    would be good idea but would have to b added for people tht meet certain criteria, for example Intel lab lvl 10 (which I havnt got yet)
  • seth mad dog
    seth mad dog
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 1,349
    4 havocs?? How about any 4 weapons?? 4 surface weapons would be nice for base attacks. The repair times are way too long for fleet battles,they are so easy to kill. This sub will never be any good to anyone until the repair times come down alot.
  • Dread Archon
    Dread Archon
    Greenhorn
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 14
    Add a 3rd special slot. Make it like a underwater SW. That Would make it useful.
    Seconded.
    The Stalker definitely need more speed, talking of which, it is plain disappointing how little difference the engine 2 does in terms of speed. It makes me wonder if going for engine 3 are worth it?
    I'm torn on this. Part of me thinks that stalkers should be slower than preds, but at the same time, they're supposed to be better than preds. An stalker with eng2 is slower than a pred with eng1 and that just seems weird to me.
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  • CrossX1
    CrossX1
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    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 243
    Seconded.


    I'm torn on this. Part of me thinks that stalkers should be slower than preds, but at the same time, they're supposed to be better than preds. An stalker with eng2 is slower than a pred with eng1 and that just seems weird to me.

    I agree totally with both. engine 3 stalkers are still to slow to do anything and i honestly am starting to really like my plans for my stalker subs. when i get some of these new sub specials then they will make them even more epic. i kinda would like to see what will happen. if yall can give us a time frame of when they may be finished that be great.
     
  • Michael Middleton
    Michael Middleton
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 812
    Stalker's speed and the time it can stay down is problem not so much the weapon mix even with engine the stalker is shocking slow
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  • wesker
    wesker
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    speed up the stalker a little
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  • Admiral_Ackabar
    Admiral_Ackabar
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 5,543
    its a sub, its under water, it should be slow....have you ever tried to run underwater?

    3 specials would definetly balance out the LONG repairs tho, I dont think they will add in a new special tho, that would kind of be OP

    Enhanced Torpedo damage, Extended submerge time, engines 3 or even sonar! 4 Havocs firing at you per ship with 4 of them thats 16 Havocs and boosted damage while going down on whatever fleet is coming at it

    yeah, 2 specials is enough.
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  • thebeatboy
    thebeatboy
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 32
    :crying: they dont need to shoot above and under water they need more speed even engine 3 doesnt help
    but id like to try a stalker with engine 2 sonar and all torp 4s
  • raabee
    raabee
    Greenhorn
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 4
    make them faster
  • Cyaneye
    Cyaneye
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    its a sub, its under water, it should be slow....have you ever tried to run underwater?

    3 specials would definetly balance out the LONG repairs tho, I dont think they will add in a new special tho, that would kind of be OP

    Enhanced Torpedo damage, Extended submerge time, engines 3 or even sonar! 4 Havocs firing at you per ship with 4 of them thats 16 Havocs and boosted damage while going down on whatever fleet is coming at it

    yeah, 2 specials is enough.


    Maybe so Toledo. You have good reasoning, but as of right now the stalker is immensively underpowered. They're incredibly rare to see in-game, I myself have exactly 1 that I built to test its combat effectiveness. The only thing that that stalker is used for is getting across the map before the base fleet in order to sweep out guard fleets, but even then it needs a predator to back it up.

    Keep in mind each engine upgrade decreases the torpedo accuraccy, so those four havoks will miss a LOT. To be honest, I would be very surprised if the stalker ends up being overpowered as a result of a third special.
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  • Sprouts
    Sprouts
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    The next sector over is filled with stalkers. They're real easy to kill with booster missiles (or anything else that outranges torps) because they're slow. I've yet to find a need for sonar against any sub - after you've driven them long enough against salvages, you know how they work and get a feel for where they're likely to be.

    I'd like to see stalkers made useful in bases. For that they'd need more armor and/or less surface time, and the ability to put above-water weapons in all four slots.
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  • john g
    john g
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    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 1
    Hey Swag,
    This is a good thing for the subs and all. Question? Is there ever going to be some ship defense against subs weapons (concussive)?
  • Dogued
    Dogued
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 267
    There's plenty I'd like to see on a Stalker, but being practical and trying to keep a modicum of balance rules most of them out!

    Instead some ideas would be:
    1) Allow all weapons in all slots. If someone wants to put all thuds on it great, or all torps awesome.
    2) Addition of 3rd Special slot. Wouldn't mind seeing this made a forced armor special slot. Oh and move the armor specials research to the naval lab!
    3) Bring repair times more into line with HH/FF ships. Considering the stalker has less armor, less weapons and less base health it's a bit much that it takes double the time.
    4) Greater submerged time, altho if this is going to be enabled through a special then disregard.
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